It blows my mind that Penguins fans are so down on MAF. I am a Flyers fan yes, but being from Western PA i watch just as many Penguins games.(On mute with the radio playing most of the time bc Errey/Steigerwald could be the worst in the league, while Mike Lange is left doing radio...CRIME!) Jarry is the only thing even close to an NHL goaltender in their system and he is like many have said at least 3 years away, not to mention he is certainly no sure thing. MAF has kept this team in the top tier along with their stars up front for the past 5 years. Goalies dont grow on trees and Im willing to bet that if polled the NHL GM's rank him in the top 10 of NHL goalies. 5/year is not a bad contract at this point and will not handcuff them. Letangs deal is the biggest handcuff that they have with him never going to be able to live up to the expecations that came with it. Overall I think the Penguins fans should be happy to have MAF and hope that a system change and possibly a culture change can move them past their recent playoff shortcomings.
- did109

I only disagree about Letang. Our worst contract by far is Scuderi's.

TBH if we could trade Scuderi and Martin and manage to get a good young top 6 forward, look out. I'm positive Bortuzzo/Despres/Harrington/Dumoulin/Pouliot can take care of our D. Letang/Ehrhoff/Määttä are already staples.

Yeah, you definitely got the wrong end of LeClair's career. How do you feel about Timonen?
- jmatchett383

Vanilla. Never really struck a chord with me the way Desjardins did. I feel like Desjardins was good for a PP goal pretty much every single time we played you guys. He was for your team what Gonch was for us during the cup runs in 08/09.

I grew up in the 90's. There is more than enough material from that decade to last for a lifetime of hating your team. Watching 66 retire the first time was difficult enough; having your cross state rival be the team that knocked us out and put him into retirement was salt in the wound. I will never hate any teams as much as I do the Flyers and Patriots.
- Rawdog9755

So do you hate the Flyers and the fans who gave him a standing ovation the day he scored a goal in our building the day he got a chemo treatment? Do you hate the Flyers players and fans who stayed around and gave him a 5-minute standing ovation when he retired the first time?

I guess it just goes one way. Prior to 2008, we didn't really care about you guys, it was always the Rangers/Devils. Even now, it's more of a Crosby/Malkin/Letang thing than a Penguins thing. We just don't care if you can remove those guys.

You hate Bonnie Lindros?
- jmatchett383

Yeah, right along side of Joe Jackson and Murry Wilson.

I love Fleury as a player to cheer for, but there are a lot other G's out there who I would rather have in so far as it comes to the package of their play & contract.

However, the major issue I have is that the coming offseason does not have a strong crop of UFA goalies. So if not Fleury, then who? Just as I do not want to overpay for Fleury, I do not want to overpay for some other underperforming UFA goalie with a $6M/yr contract.

Here are what seem to be the top UFA goalies heading to UFA this offseason in no particular order: Fleury, Niemi, Neuvirth, Enroth, Harding

Other than Harding (whose injury concerns, at least in my mind, disqualify him), I'm not sure any one of the other four listed are any better or worse than the next.

Neurvith and Enroth are both younger guys playing for a bad Buffalo team, so maybe they'd be cheaper w/ some upsdie? Niemi hasn't done any better on a stong SJ team so would he be an upgrade? Just not sure there are any good options out there.
- s0rcerer1984

Under $4M he wouldn't be a bad pick up if Fleury wants $5M+.

Enroth and Neuvirth would be something like a Greiss situation IMO.

So do you hate the Flyers and the fans who gave him a standing ovation the day he scored a goal in our building the day he got a chemo treatment? Do you hate the Flyers players and fans who stayed around and gave him a 5-minute standing ovation when he retired the first time?

I guess it just goes one way. Prior to 2008, we didn't really care about you guys, it was always the Rangers/Devils. Even now, it's more of a Crosby/Malkin/Letang thing than a Penguins thing. We just don't care if you can remove those guys.
- jmatchett383

Yes. Never underestimate the hate a fanbase can build during a one-sided beatdown that lasted in excess of a decade. It is kind of like Cleveland fans thinking Pitt is their rival and hating all things Steelers. Steelers fans of my age dont really care about the Browns because the rivalry has been that one sided in our lifetimes--it isnt really even a rivalry.

Yeah, right along side of Joe Jackson and Murry Wilson.
- nbartley9

I'm fairly confused right now. Know who my most-hated Penguins were?

Darius Kasparitis - aside from the Lindros hit and the fact that he turtled from Colin Forbes later in the game, he went low every chance he got. I'll respect him for generally never backing down, but I still hate him.

Matthew Barnaby - must I really explain?

Sidney Crosby - just kidding he's way down on the list.

Kris Letang - head snap, head snap, head snap. Extremely talented player, but the queen of embellishments.

Jaromir Jagr is off the list. We got the "mature" Jagr who was a great leader and example for our young players. But damn he used to infuriate us to no end.

I really don't get it. You guys are top dog right now, and the Flyers are arguably the 2nd worst team in the division. It's not like the Flyers got all riled up for every game in 03/04 against the Penguins, even with our barbaric, blood-thirsty fans. You guys will win, it will be a walkover, and you'll likely get not fight (literally and figuratively) from the Flyers. So why get so worked up and take jabs like that?
- jmatchett383

I've come full circle on the Flyers... As a young, irrational fan, I hated the Flyers and most of the players on that team. Then in the legion of doom days, I found myself actually liking most of the Flyers players. Mix in some playoff series over the years, I still hate the Flyers, but I've liked many more Flyers players than I have hated over the years.

Yes. Never underestimate the hate a fanbase can build during a one-sided beatdown that lasted in excess of a decade. It is kind of like Cleveland fans thinking Pitt is their rival and hating all things Steelers. Steelers fans of my age dont really care about the Browns because the rivalry has been that one sided in our lifetimes--it isnt really even a rivalry.
- Rawdog9755

I guess. Maybe that's why Eagles fans hate Dallas so much, because Dallas has had their way with them for decades (until the late 90s). I guess it's kind of like the Capitals who see the Penguins as their "big rival" but they're what, maybe 3rd-4th on your list?

I've come full circle on the Flyers... As a young, irrational fan, I hated the Flyers and most of the players on that team. Then in the legion of doom days, I found myself actually liking most of the Flyers players. Mix in some playoff series over the years, I still hate the Flyers, but I've liked many more Flyers players than I have hated over the years.
- rival22

So you hate the Flyers as one full embodiment, but have no problem with a large portion of them individually? Because that's how I feel about a lot of the Rangers. I refuse to like them because they're Rangers, but there are players on the team that I genuinely admire.

Eloquently stated, O I forgot I hate Mr. and Mrs. Lindros pretty badly as well.


FTF
- nbartley9

How did it take so long for Lindros to appear on this thread?

I'm fairly confused right now. Know who my most-hated Penguins were?

Darius Kasparitis - aside from the Lindros hit and the fact that he turtled from Colin Forbes later in the game, he went low every chance he got. I'll respect him for generally never backing down, but I still hate him.

Matthew Barnaby - must I really explain?

Sidney Crosby - just kidding he's way down on the list.

Kris Letang - head snap, head snap, head snap. Extremely talented player, but the queen of embellishments.

Jaromir Jagr is off the list. We got the "mature" Jagr who was a great leader and example for our young players. But damn he used to infuriate us to no end.
- jmatchett383

I had no idea about this:


Jagr is still my favorite player. Unique talent and his salute was awesome

I'm glad this cat is gone. Philly has no soul now haha

So you hate the Flyers as one full embodiment, but have no problem with a large portion of them individually?
- jmatchett383

Lol... pretty much... I guess I could say that I hate the idea of the Flyers more than I hate the actual Flyers. Being a sports fan is confusing and mostly nonsensical lol.

I only disagree about Letang. Our worst contract by far is Scuderi's.

TBH if we could trade Scuderi and Martin and manage to get a good young top 6 forward, look out. I'm positive Bortuzzo/Despres/Harrington/Dumoulin/Pouliot can take care of our D. Letang/Ehrhoff/Määttä are already staples.
- Barnaby36

I guess i wasnt really thinking about Scuderi since it has 2 years? remaining. I think Letang is a staple absolutely, but his play wont live up to his deal and its a high number. Maatta with all the dots has shown promise to be a top 4 dman going forward, but i am not convinved Ehrhoff sticks around. Think he is a steal for them this year but could see him chasing big money if he has a solid season. The young group of Dmen shows a ton of potential but as both Flyers and Penguins fans know, potential doesnt always mean success, ie Jeff Woywitka, Eric Tangradi, Angelo Esposito etc.

I had no idea about this:


Jagr is still my favorite player. Unique talent and his salute was awesome

I'm glad this cat is gone. Philly has no soul now haha

- Barnaby36

Lindros took part in batting practice one time. Afterwards, Cito Gaston walked up to him and said, "Good luck with hockey, kid."

How did it take so long for Lindros to appear on this thread?
- Topshelf Mountain

Probably because Kasper and Boughner took care of him. While the Flyers as a whole usually had their way with us, Lindros as an individual was one of the few we had our way with.

Lol... pretty much... I guess I could say that I hate the idea of the Flyers, more than I hate the actual Flyers. Being a sports fan is confusing and mostly nonsensical lol.
- rival22

It certainly is. It always bothers me to hear Penguins fans say how awful the flyers fans are. Dont get me wrong there are a lot of brutal fans there as my wife and i once experienced...her being a penguisn fan and me being a flyers fan we attended a game 3 years ago that saw her get a fully loaded hot dog thrown at her after she clapped for a goal. Mind you my wife is very timid and quiet was not being obnoxious but only clapping. Completely disgusting in my opinion as those are the kinds of things that give all Flyer fans a bad name, but while attending a playoff game in 09, actually game 2 in Pittsburgh the pens won in OT and while waiting patiently and minding my own business for my group of friends to exit with me i was blind sided by penguins fans who bear hugged me and proceeded to scream in my ear while the other spit on my jersey. The verbal abuse that flies from penguins fans is just as vile. It frustrates me to no end that in either bulding a fan from the opposing team cannot enjoy a rivalry game without it turning to the point of these two incidents.

Lindros took part in batting practice one time. Afterwards, Cito Gaston walked up to him and said, "Good luck with hockey, kid."
- jmatchett383

For your joy jmatchett

Probably because Kasper and Boughner took care of him. While the Flyers as a whole usually had their way with us, Lindros as an individual was one of the few we had our way with.
- Rawdog9755

He had 30 points in 34 career games against you guys, mostly played in an era of low-scoring (and not taking into account his NYR/TML/Dal days). I'd say that's pretty good.

Probably because Kasper and Boughner took care of him. While the Flyers as a whole usually had their way with us, Lindros as an individual was one of the few we had our way with.
- Rawdog9755

I was thinking the same thing, so I just looked up his split stats to see if we remembered correctly, and you are right.

Lindros in career averaged .49 goals per game / 1.14 points per game. Against the Pens, his averages were .38 goals per game / .88 points per game. So the Pens did keep him him check for the most part.

It certainly is. It always bothers me to hear Penguins fans say how awful the flyers fans are. Dont get me wrong there are a lot of brutal fans there as my wife and i once experienced...her being a penguisn fan and me being a flyers fan we attended a game 3 years ago that saw her get a fully loaded hot dog thrown at her after she clapped for a goal. Mind you my wife is very timid and quiet was not being obnoxious but only clapping. Completely disgusting in my opinion as those are the kinds of things that give all Flyer fans a bad name, but while attending a playoff game in 09, actually game 2 in Pittsburgh the pens won in OT and while waiting patiently and minding my own business for my group of friends to exit with me i was blind sided by penguins fans who bear hugged me and proceeded to scream in my ear while the other spit on my jersey. The verbal abuse that flies from penguins fans is just as vile. It frustrates me to no end that in either bulding a fan from the opposing team cannot enjoy a rivalry game without it turning to the point of these two incidents.
- did109

While every fanbase has their bad apples, Philly seems to have universally earned the reputation they have. It isnt like just Pens fans feel this way. From personal experience though, I would put Toronto on the top of that list. There are more fights and mayhem in the stands when Toronto is in town than any other fanbase IMO.

For your joy jmatchett
- Barnaby36

I really don't care any more as they're irrelevant. At the time, I couldn't stand them. When Lindros beat up Kasparitis in the 1996 World Cup (stopped before it got bad) I was so happy. Keep in mind, neither of them were hated because they were on the Penguins, just because of the pests they were. Barnaby is tied with Domi for my least-favorite player ever. He just happened to wear a Pens jersey for a bit.

I was thinking the same thing, so I just looked up his split stats to see if we remembered correctly, and you are right.

Lindros in career averaged .49 goals per game / 1.14 points per game. Against the Pens, his averages were .38 goals per game / .88 points per game. So the Pens did keep him him check for the most part.
- rival22

Would you have these numbers for Lemieux, Jagr and Crosby against the Flyers?

While every fanbase has their bad apples, Philly seems to have universally earned the reputation they have. It isnt like just Pens fans feel this way. From personal experience though, I would put Toronto on the top of that list. There are more fights and mayhem in the stands when Toronto is in town than any other fanbase IMO.
- Rawdog9755

Philadelphia fans, yes. But that's mostly Eagles and, to a lesser extent, Phillies fans. Flyers fans have their times, but they're usually not too bad. I don't know if anyone attends 76ers games right now.

So do you hate the Flyers and the fans who gave him a standing ovation the day he scored a goal in our building the day he got a chemo treatment? Do you hate the Flyers players and fans who stayed around and gave him a 5-minute standing ovation when he retired the first time?

I guess it just goes one way. Prior to 2008, we didn't really care about you guys, it was always the Rangers/Devils. Even now, it's more of a Crosby/Malkin/Letang thing than a Penguins thing. We just don't care if you can remove those guys.
- jmatchett383

Why are you doing this to us? and that's totally not true. There was hatred going back and forth ever since the Pens/Blues rivalry simmered down. While you maybe a level headed normal person, this rivalry is not for the level headed or the normal. The captain of our team went out of his way to dress up like your cities most successful athlete ever Rocky for Halloween, now if that wasn't a direct message to your team and city I don't know what is.

89' playoff elimination
Hextall/Brown
Primeau 5 ot
or how about (39-0-3), in the Rectum; until we got Mario?
By 2008 this rivalry as 20 years old
FTF