But unlike the Ray Rice/NFL ordeal, the NHL does not have the same type of contracts that the NFL has. I don't think the NHL has any power on what is, currently, fairly circumstantial evidence. If they suspend him/suspend his pay and he's found to be innocent, that sets a dangerous precedent for future issues.
- jmatchett383

Part of the problem with Rice was there was a video of him dragging her around and since he was scene as a star, he got a slap on the wrist, 1/8 season suspension. Then as more evidence came out the NFL and Ravens looked pretty bad and it seemed they had all this knowledge from the get go. The NHL is smart by removing him as a distraction at this point and avoiding what the NFL did.

Always fun to look at old trades. 9/24/97: Pittsburgh acquires fifth round pick from Buffalo for Jason Woolley. Funny as hell who we took with the pick.

The problem is that it is all speculation... None of us know what evidence they do or don't have. The league is saying that the situations were different... What we do know is that they went to the hospital together. So if you bring a beat up woman to the ER, and she tells the docs that you beat her up, that's pretty strong evidence at least linking you to the crime.
- rival22

I haven't followed it intently, but did she come out and say that? I know the nurses contacted police as the prime suspect, but I hadn't heard anything more than that.

Funny linage for that 3rd round pick that the Pens gave the Flyers for Hamhuis' rights... Flyers used it in the Bryzgalov trade, Coyotes used it to draft Harrison Ruopp, who then later was traded to the Pens in the Zbynek Michalek deal. So, we essentially got that pick back anyway
- rival22

Anything ever happen with Ruopp? Is he still in the system?

The problem is that it is all speculation... None of us know what evidence they do or don't have. The league is saying that the situations were different... What we do know is that they went to the hospital together. So if you bring a beat up woman to the ER, and she tells the docs that you beat her up, that's pretty strong evidence at least linking you to the crime.
- rival22

What if she did a Edward Norton in Fightclub?

Part of the problem with Rice was there was a video of him dragging her around and since he was scene as a star, he got a slap on the wrist, 1/8 season suspension. Then as more evidence came out the NFL and Ravens looked pretty bad and it seemed they had all this knowledge from the get go. The NHL is smart by removing him as a distraction at this point and avoiding what the NFL did.
- sammy87

I understand that. If the NHL wants to suspend him from play, that's an issue between the NHL and Kings' management to argue (or not). However, suspending his pay without a criminal/civil conviction seems to cross the line.

What if she did a Edward Norton in Fightclub?
- Topshelf Mountain

On the verge of bad taste, but valid.

So, if he's found to be innocent, does the NHL have to give the Kings some bonus points in the standings and give Voynov a lump sum of withheld cash? Because if not, I'm going to get some lumps on me and go crying to the Pittsburgh police that Sidney Crosby beat and raped me. Not really, but you get the point, the precedent has been set and the gates have been opened.

Also, I'm not for abuse of anyone on anyone, but I think it's premature for the NHL to suspend him and his pay without any hard, conclusive evidence.
- jmatchett383

His innocence in so far as a criminal trial is likely not determinative.

Voynov would have to bring suit under Civil law where the standard is much less than Criminal law. Ie, Preponderance of the Evidence (ie, 51% likely) in Civil suits vs. Innocent until Proven Guilty Beyond a reasonable Doubt. In short, the NHL would simply have to show that more likely than not Voynov damaged the reputation of the league through some action, even if said action falls short of criminal conduct.

As far as your scenario with Crosby goes, I understand what you are saying. But the current situation all came about because someone working in a ER detected signs of what has been reported to be serious domestic abuse to Voynov’s GF/wife to the police. Not exactly just some random fan with an inconsistent story and no relation to the alleged abuser.

I haven't followed it intently, but did she come out and say that? I know the nurses contacted police as the prime suspect, but I hadn't heard anything more than that.
- jmatchett383

That was an assumption too... I don't know if she said anything.

On the verge of bad taste, but valid.
- jmatchett383

I walked the line, but, PEOPLE do some crazy stuff in this world. And when money is involved, sheesh, no telling anymore. I'm waiting till judging.

Anything ever happen with Ruopp? Is he still in the system?
- sammy87

Still in Wilkes-Barre... could be forced to Wheeling with both Harrington and Pouliot now there.

Speaking of the Michalek trade, we also got the pick that ended up being Oskar Sundqvist from Phoenix, so that was a nice bonus.

I walked the line, but, PEOPLE do some crazy stuff in this world. And when money is involved, sheesh, no telling anymore. I'm waiting till judging.
- Topshelf Mountain

That's where I am. I understand this is a delicate issue in light of the Ray Rice incident. At the same time, suspending his pay for something he may be innocent of (though unlikely) seems like it crosses the line.

That's where I am. I understand this is a delicate issue in light of the Ray Rice incident. At the same time, suspending his pay for something he may be innocent of (though unlikely) seems like it crosses the line.
- jmatchett383

He is suspended, but it is with pay.

That's where I am. I understand this is a delicate issue in light of the Ray Rice incident. At the same time, suspending his pay for something he may be innocent of (though unlikely) seems like it crosses the line.
- jmatchett383

I kinda agree with that. Unless in his contract there is a clause that states otherwise.

His innocence in so far as a criminal trial is likely not determinative.

Voynov would have to bring suit under Civil law where the standard is much less than Criminal law. Ie, Preponderance of the Evidence (ie, 51% likely) in Civil suits vs. Innocent until Proven Guilty Beyond a reasonable Doubt. In short, the NHL would simply have to show that more likely than not Voynov damaged the reputation of the league through some action, even if said action falls short of criminal conduct.

As far as your scenario with Crosby goes, I understand what you are saying. But the current situation all came about because someone working in a ER detected signs of what has been reported to be serious domestic abuse to Voynov’s GF/wife to the police. Not exactly just some random fan with an inconsistent story and no relation to the alleged abuser.
- s0rcerer1984

Interesting thing about California, is that Domestic abuse is not only considered a crime against another person, i.e. Voynov's wife, but also a crime against the state. This differs from the Ray Rice case, as even if his wife decides not to press charges, the state can still charge him with Domestic violence.

He is suspended, but it is with pay.
- s0rcerer1984

That seems fair, at least for him. The Kings could file a griveance, but they haven't (and won't). I'm okay with that, personally.

Still in Wilkes-Barre... could be forced to Wheeling with both Harrington and Pouliot now there.

Speaking of the Michalek trade, we also got the pick that ended up being Oskar Sundqvist from Phoenix, so that was a nice bonus.
- rival22

That is interesting!

Ruopp, Dumolin, Pouliott....I cant keep track of them, I completely forgot about Ruopp.

I haven't followed it intently, but did she come out and say that? I know the nurses contacted police as the prime suspect, but I hadn't heard anything more than that.
- jmatchett383

Even if she didn't make a statement, stuff like this is generally pretty apparent.

Is her blood all over his house/apartment? Does she have his DNA under her fingernails from defensive scratching? Is he scratched anywhere or are his fists scraped up? Are any bruises consistent with the size of his fists/hands? Etc...

There was also a 911 call about a women screaming and crying in Voynov's apt. prior to the ER room by a neighbor as well. Entirely separate from the ER reporting it.

Due to the CBA, I don't think the league can force him to sit out or forfeit money without a conviction and/or undeniable evidence (i.e. video). However, they can come out and speak against it, and the Kings can decide to bar him from any team activities for the time being. Then, once more facts start to surface, both the league and the Kings can reconsider their stances.
- jmatchett383

Source ?in the state of California the victim does not need to press charges, the DA can do it anyway.

Damn.... finally get to see a Wilkes-Barre game, and two guys that I really wanted to see (Zlobin & Dea) are scratched...

Thanks guys.

It's been an issue over hear with footballers getting into trouble with street violence, not domestic, and they have been trial by media before actually being convicted of anything.

So players have been suspended without pay and then found not guilty.

I'm all against violence, it's just hard for leagues and teams to get t he right balance.

Plus in this particular case, the injuries do make Salva look guilty.
- walshy66

I'm definitely in the "wait for the facts" camp. In the mean time, I think the right course of action has been taken.

I'm definitely in the "wait for the facts" camp. In the mean time, I think the right course of action has been taken.
- BulliesPhan87

I tend to agree with this. I will not judge him until the facts come through, however, these are serious franking allegations and the suspension during the investigation is the right call.

I'm definitely in the "wait for the facts" camp. In the mean time, I think the right course of action has been taken.
- BulliesPhan87

It is complicated though... If a potential trial takes a year plus to get underway, that puts the team and the individual in a untenable position.

For the team, under the current system, his salary (and roster spot I believe) count against the cap and roster max. Having to carry a dead roster spot and dead cap space for a season plus isn't fair to them or anyone else on that team, even if he is guilty. And on a cap ceiling team, it can even lead to them having to make a roster move that really hurts the franchise.

And for Voynov, if he's innocent, that is a season plus that he can never get back. Obviously if he is guilty, then who the hell cares about that. And he has more years left on his deal, but imagine if it was a boaderline NHL'er in a contract year who was proved innocent... it could easily end his NHL career.

The League/NHLPA have to quickly come together and figure out a solution to this that makes sense. There has to be like an LTIR solution if they are going to keep him out until it's decided by the courts. You'd think there would also have to be a way for a team to terminate a contract of a player convicted of a violent crime.

I got a legit question to people who read enough of the other blogs.

Any other fanbases looking at/wanting to acquire Martin? Just curious, I havn't noticed it, but I have been really slacking off on reading other bloggers lately.

Just to add a bit to the conversation on Pouliot, he is the untouchable D prospect in the organization with Kapanen being the O prospect.

It would not surprise me to see Despres traded to get Harrington up here as well. As much as I like Despres' game and believe he can be a difference maker, Harrington is a more polished defender at a younger age and cheaper salary.