That is the logical approach. I'm taking the gut feel approach. From the small sample size I've had watching him LordRicky looks legit. The highest draft pick weve had in years, the main piece of the Jordan Staal trade, defenseman of the year awards, will be on ELC for 3 years, the most important piece of the Defensive U drafting philosphy... Just feels like a guy I would regret trading in the long run unless we got, like I mentioned, someone like Evgeny Kuznetsov.

As bad as I want to address the forward situation, Maatta and Pouliot could be top 4 defenseman for the next 15 years.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

That's fine. That's how I feel about Shayne Gostisbehere and Travis Sanheim, and to a lesser extent, Sam Morin. Sometimes it's hard to think logically and evaluate without bias as fans.

That is the logical approach. I'm taking the gut feel approach. From the small sample size I've had watching him LordRicky looks legit. The highest draft pick weve had in years, the main piece of the Jordan Staal trade, defenseman of the year awards, will be on ELC for 3 years, the most important piece of the Defensive U drafting philosphy... Just feels like a guy I would regret trading in the long run unless we got, like I mentioned, someone like Evgeny Kuznetsov.

As bad as I want to address the forward situation, Maatta and Pouliot could be top 4 defenseman for the next 15 years.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Funny thing is that everybody was angry in here when Shero picked him.....

You mean Hamhuis' rights for a 3rd rounder?
- jmatchett383

1992. The infamous Brian Benning trade.

I was being sarcastic...
- cap1681

My bad. Didn't notice the tone inflection.

I'm not in the "Pouliot is untouchable" camp. If the right deal came along, you would have to consider it. It would have to be for a young, top 6 guy who is close to contributing or already contributing at the NHL level. Like a Niederreiter, or Forsberg
- cap1681

Fair. I just view him higher than any prospect we've had in the past. THough important, I wouldnt pay for the extra value points placed on players already in the NHL.

That's fine. That's how I feel about Shayne Gostisbehere and Travis Sanheim, and to a lesser extent, Sam Morin. Sometimes it's hard to think logically and evaluate without bias as fans.
- jmatchett383

Glad you can at least see my (lack of) rationale.

1992. The infamous Brian Benning trade.
- Topshelf Mountain

Tibbets for Manderville?
Slaney for Stevens?

Fair. I just view him higher than any prospect we've had in the past. THough important, I wouldnt pay for the extra value points placed on players already in the NHL.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

For a guy like Niederreiter i would. He was a force last year for MIN in the playoffs.

How do you feel about not getting anything in return for Orpik, Nisky? (serious question, not being an ass)
- YouMeAndDupuis9

I was fine with it. They took a chance to win a Cup with those guys and it didn't work out.

I thought they should have traded Niskanen before last season. His value was high. They had a need for a 3rd liner. They had to free up some cap space. I thought they could have flipped him for someone like a Nick Spaling last off season.

I don't see the "trade him and get something for him" need for teams that are in win-now mode. You almost always keep the player and go for it.

Teams like FLA, Carolina, etc.. need to be moving parts, getting something for their assets, and rebuilding. That's not the Pens.

Funny thing is that everybody was angry in here when Shero picked him.....
- cap1681

Should we have gotten a forward, probably. But if he was graded higher, I'm happy they took the best player. Now for future sake, reach for a damn forward haha.

disclaimer: was not on hockeybuzz at the time of that draft and I'm sure you don't care, but I was happy they picked him. I was feeling the full effect of missing Gonchar.

For a guy like Niederreiter i would. He was a force last year for MIN in the playoffs.
- cap1681

Maybe. To be fair, didn't see a lot of Nino. Still would rather try a Martin (+?) trade for Nino as opposed to Pouliot. Guys like B. Gallagher would be in that category of what I would accept for Pouliot....but thats precisely why I wouldnt trade him...it would never happen.

No they dont. Where do you get this from? Fantasy land. Just love making stuff up because nobody wants to take on Scuds contract or take Martin off your hands?

Though the PA and Voynovs agent are looking into what they can do for him. Since it seems the league may not be able to make him sit out. Ala the Varlymov case. And that no charges have been filed and his next court date is December 1 or something like that.
- poisondhearts37

What's your thoughts on the league sitting him until after the court case? It's only 6 weeks away, it's not going to kill the kings. More about is it 'fair' the league would do that when he is innocent before guilty?

Cause that's my issue with leagues suspending before guilt is proven.

Should we have gotten a forward, probably. But if he was graded higher, I'm happy they took the best player. Now for future sake, reach for a damn forward haha.

disclaimer: was not on hockeybuzz at the time of that draft and I'm sure you don't care, but I was happy they picked him. I was feeling the full effect of missing Gonchar.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

It was actually a reach. Most scouting websites had him rated between 12 and 21, and i think all of them had Maatta rated higher than him. Plus, there were forwards that had dropped because a bunch of defensemen had been taken.

What's your thoughts on the league sitting him until after the court case? It's only 6 weeks away, it's not going to kill the kings. More about is it 'fair' the league would do that when he is innocent before guilty?

Cause that's my issue with leagues suspending before guilt is proven.
- walshy66

Due to the CBA, I don't think the league can force him to sit out or forfeit money without a conviction and/or undeniable evidence (i.e. video). However, they can come out and speak against it, and the Kings can decide to bar him from any team activities for the time being. Then, once more facts start to surface, both the league and the Kings can reconsider their stances.

What's your thoughts on the league sitting him until after the court case? It's only 6 weeks away, it's not going to kill the kings. More about is it 'fair' the league would do that when he is innocent before guilty?

Cause that's my issue with leagues suspending before guilt is proven.
- walshy66

You'd have to dig into the cba and see if there is a "personal conduct" clause like there is in the NFL.

How do you feel about not getting anything in return for Orpik, Nisky? (serious question, not being an ass)
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Fine with it.

Both were going to be out of our market price wise. Plus we have the youth coming through the system to replace what they offer. Plus Orpik was on such a decline any of the youth at a smaller cap hit is an improvement on Orpik.

I feel the same way with Martin. If we keep him for a run because management feels they cannot aquire the right part to improve the team then the youth will his roster spot at a cheaper cap hit and free up space for the following UFA market.

I think if any deals get done they will be done before the deadline, just doesn't feel like we would need to wait that long to know what we need and what we can move as respectable assets that don't hurt the team overall.

It was actually a reach. Most scouting websites had him rated between 12 and 21, and i think all of them had Maatta rated higher than him. Plus, there were forwards that had dropped because a bunch of defensemen had been taken.
- cap1681

Well I meant highest rated by the Pens staff...then again, why should we trust them? Some bad drafting over the years.....

Anyway, dont really care, high hopes for Lord Ricky.

Due to the CBA, I don't think the league can force him to sit out or forfeit money without a conviction and/or undeniable evidence (i.e. video). However, they can come out and speak against it, and the Kings can decide to bar him from any team activities for the time being. Then, once more facts start to surface, both the league and the Kings can reconsider their stances.
- jmatchett383

I believe they can force him to sit out, though he is currently doing so with pay.

Per the attached article via TSN:

"As per Article 18-A.5 of the NHL Collective Bargaining Agreement, which deals with off-ice discipline, Voynov was suspended indefinitely with pay.

This section provides that the league "may suspend the Player pending the League's formal review and disposition of the matter where the failure to suspend the Player during this period would create a substantial risk of material harm to the legitimate interests and/or reputation of the League."

There is a misconception that since this language appears in the CBA, the NHLPA agreed to a suspension for suspected domestic violence and as a result it can't challenge the NHL's decision. That's not the case. The Union did indeed collectively bargain Article 18; however it did not expressly agree to a suspension for suspected domestic violence. The language in this section is certainly broad enough to capture the Voynov suspension. To conclude, however, that the NHLPA explicitly agreed to a player suspension in these specific circumstances is not accurate. It agreed to let the league protect its reputation. When and how it does that is open to interpretation."

http://www.tsn.ca/talent/...and-deportation-1.111896#

Thanks guys.

It's been an issue over hear with footballers getting into trouble with street violence, not domestic, and they have been trial by media before actually being convicted of anything.

So players have been suspended without pay and then found not guilty.

I'm all against violence, it's just hard for leagues and teams to get t he right balance.

Plus in this particular case, the injuries do make Salva look guilty.

You'd have to dig into the cba and see if there is a "personal conduct" clause like there is in the NFL.
- cap1681

But unlike the Ray Rice/NFL ordeal, the NHL does not have the same type of contracts that the NFL has. I don't think the NHL has any power on what is, currently, fairly circumstantial evidence. If they suspend him/suspend his pay and he's found to be innocent, that sets a dangerous precedent for future issues.

What's your thoughts on the league sitting him until after the court case? It's only 6 weeks away, it's not going to kill the kings. More about is it 'fair' the league would do that when he is innocent before guilty?

Cause that's my issue with leagues suspending before guilt is proven.
- walshy66

"Innocent until proven guilty" is a legal concept. It just means that he can't be sentenced by a court of law for the crime until he is proven guilty. Outside of a court of law, such as in the NHL, it is less relevant. Both the NHL and the LA Kings have to be concerned about their image and the fact that it is being tarnished by allowing someone to play who was just charged of this crime. This stuff was already worked out in the last CBA.

I believe they can force him to sit out, though he is currently doing so with pay.

Per the attached article via TSN:

"As per Article 18-A.5 of the NHL Collective Bargaining Agreement, which deals with off-ice discipline, Voynov was suspended indefinitely with pay.

This section provides that the league "may suspend the Player pending the League's formal review and disposition of the matter where the failure to suspend the Player during this period would create a substantial risk of material harm to the legitimate interests and/or reputation of the League."

There is a misconception that since this language appears in the CBA, the NHLPA agreed to a suspension for suspected domestic violence and as a result it can't challenge the NHL's decision. That's not the case. The Union did indeed collectively bargain Article 18; however it did not expressly agree to a suspension for suspected domestic violence. The language in this section is certainly broad enough to capture the Voynov suspension. To conclude, however, that the NHLPA explicitly agreed to a player suspension in these specific circumstances is not accurate. It agreed to let the league protect its reputation. When and how it does that is open to interpretation."

http://www.tsn.ca/talent/...and-deportation-1.111896#
- s0rcerer1984

So, if he's found to be innocent, does the NHL have to give the Kings some bonus points in the standings and give Voynov a lump sum of withheld cash? Because if not, I'm going to get some lumps on me and go crying to the Pittsburgh police that Sidney Crosby beat and raped me. Not really, but you get the point, the precedent has been set and the gates have been opened.

Also, I'm not for abuse of anyone on anyone, but I think it's premature for the NHL to suspend him and his pay without any hard, conclusive evidence.

Losing Hamhuis' rights and a 3rd rounder gave the Penguins a Cup?
- jmatchett383

Funny linage for that 3rd round pick that the Pens gave the Flyers for Hamhuis' rights... Flyers used it in the Bryzgalov trade, Coyotes used it to draft Harrison Ruopp, who then later was traded to the Pens in the Zbynek Michalek deal. So, we essentially got that pick back anyway

Funny linage for that 3rd round pick that the Pens gave the Flyers for Hamhuis' rights... Flyers used it in the Bryzgalov trade, Coyotes used it to draft Harrison Ruopp, who then later was traded to the Pens in the Zbynek Michalek deal. So, we essentially got that pick back anyway
- rival22

That is pretty interesting (and horrible).

So, if he's found to be innocent, does the NHL have to give the Kings some bonus points in the standings and give Voynov a lump sum of withheld cash? Because if not, I'm going to get some lumps on me and go crying to the Pittsburgh police that Sidney Crosby beat and raped me. Not really, but you get the point, the precedent has been set and the gates have been opened.

Also, I'm not for abuse of anyone on anyone, but I think it's premature for the NHL to suspend him and his pay without any hard, conclusive evidence.
- jmatchett383

The problem is that it is all speculation... None of us know what evidence they do or don't have. The league is saying that the situations were different... What we do know is that they went to the hospital together. So if you bring a beat up woman to the ER, and she tells the docs that you beat her up, that's pretty strong evidence at least linking you to the crime.