If the Penguins came and offered Maatta for Simmonds, peoples necks would snap with how fast that deal would be done. A 20 y/o top 4 defenseman with a huge ceiling, and a extremely friendly cap hit for the next 2 seasons is something the Flyers are sorely missing and would jump all over in an instant.
- cap1681

In a vacuum, yes. Giving him to a division rival that we'll see 4-5 times a year plus playoffs...I'd be very, very hesitant.

The Flyers are not in a "win now" mode. They have 5 very good defensive prospects who are 2-3 years minimum away from possibly being what Maata is. All 5 may pan out, 0 may pan out (2-4 is more likely). Simmonds will be one of the key forwards when that window opens. Based on their prospect pool and when their window should open, I don't think Simmonds goes, even for Olli Maata, and I'm a HUGE Maata fan.

It doesn't really bother me much... It's a risk that you take trying to "go for it". If you miss the playoffs or are a low seed with really no chance of going far, I think that you need to try to get something for a player that is leaving anyway, but I don't mind trying to make a Cup run and then losing a guy. To me, it's a cost of doing business as a contender.

If it's a legit hockey trade and somehow we manage to get a top 6 forward for Paul Martin, then great, but the Pens signed Paul Martin for 5 years, and I'm fine with having him for 5 years and 5 playoff runs. I'd rather have those 5 years than a 4 1/2 years and get a couple draft picks/mediocre NHL players in return.
- rival22

Agree. I don't think anyone on here wants to trade Martin for mediocre players/picks. There were rumors last year of someone potentially offering a 1st for Orpik.

Just rumors and all but after the Doug Murray deal and the contract Orpik eventually got, anything is possible. I didnt mind taking a run with Nisky although he would have been a really hot commodity at the trade deadline. I think overall we lost too many assets for little or no return. Thats the nature of the beast of a win-now team, but I think there was some opportunity for better asset management.

Agree. I don't think anyone on here wants to trade Martin for mediocre players/picks. There were rumors last year of someone potentially offering a 1st for Orpik.

Just rumors and all but after the Doug Murray deal and the contract Orpik eventually got, anything is possible. I didnt mind taking a run with Nisky although he would have been a really hot commodity at the trade deadline. I think overall we lost too many assets for little or no return. Thats the nature of the beast of a win-now team, but I think there was some opportunity for better asset management.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

At least you guys aren't like the late 90's Flyers who gave away 1st round picks/top prospects like they were nothing for UFAs-to-be.

It doesn't really bother me much... It's a risk that you take trying to "go for it". If you miss the playoffs or are a low seed with really no chance of going far, I think that you need to try to get something for a player that is leaving anyway, but I don't mind trying to make a Cup run and then losing a guy. To me, it's a cost of doing business as a contender.

If it's a legit hockey trade and somehow we manage to get a top 6 forward for Paul Martin, then great, but the Pens signed Paul Martin for 5 years, and I'm fine with having him for 5 years and 5 playoff runs. I'd rather have those 5 years than a 4 1/2 years and get a couple draft picks/mediocre NHL players in return.
- rival22

Random thought, in the 4 playoff runs that Martin has been here, the Penguins have only won 3 series..........

At least you guys aren't like the late 90's Flyers who gave away 1st round picks/top prospects like they were nothing for UFAs-to-be.
- jmatchett383

What did the Flyers give Quebec for Lindross?

In a vacuum, yes. Giving him to a division rival that we'll see 4-5 times a year plus playoffs...I'd be very, very hesitant.

The Flyers are not in a "win now" mode. They have 5 very good defensive prospects who are 2-3 years minimum away from possibly being what Maata is. All 5 may pan out, 0 may pan out (2-4 is more likely). Simmonds will be one of the key forwards when that window opens. Based on their prospect pool and when their window should open, I don't think Simmonds goes, even for Olli Maata, and I'm a HUGE Maata fan.
- jmatchett383

Two great players....two players that are too important to their respective teams...division rivals....would never happen.

Maatta and Pouliot are almost untouchable imo. Pouliot may be a superstar, heck maybe someday makes Letang expendable. I'm firmly in the dont-trade-letang camp but down the road who knows. It would take a potential superstar winger 20-22 years old with a year or two left on their ELC. Not many forwards out there fit that description.

Random thought, in the 4 playoff runs that Martin has been here, the Penguins have only won 3 series..........
- cap1681

Is that a result of Martin, or of the team overall? I've said it before, it's very troubling that this emerging dynastic team has yet to win 1 game past the second round in the 5 years since the 2009 Cup. I think this year's team is the deepest since then, sans Steve Downie.

What did the Flyers give Quebec for Lindross?
- sammy87

A Stanley Cup

Random thought, in the 4 playoff runs that Martin has been here, the Penguins have only won 3 series..........
- cap1681

I might be in the minority here, but Martin is good, but lets not pretend he's that amazing and irreplaceable.

At least you guys aren't like the late 90's Flyers who gave away 1st round picks/top prospects like they were nothing for UFAs-to-be.
- jmatchett383

True. But armchair GM is all about nitpicking

Shero made as many great moves as bad ones.

What did the Flyers give Quebec for Lindross?
- sammy87

From the NHL website:

"After a week-long arbitration process, the result was the biggest trade in NHL history, which saw Lindros' rights awarded to the Flyers in exchange for six players (Steve Duchesne, Peter Forsberg, Ron Hextall, Kerry Huffman, Mike Ricci and Chris Simon), two draft picks and $15 million."

Two great players....two players that are too important to their respective teams...division rivals....would never happen.

Maatta and Pouliot are almost untouchable imo. Pouliot may be a superstar, heck maybe someday makes Letang expendable. I'm firmly in the dont-trade-letang camp but down the road who knows. It would take a potential superstar winger 20-22 years old with a year or two left on their ELC. Not many forwards out there fit that description.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

I still don't get how Pouliot is "untouchable." The guy has played a whopping 1 professional game. While his WHL numbers are legit, the other top-5 defenseman in single season playoff scoring topped out at Greg Hawgood. I'm not saying give him away, but I wouldn't hold him in the same camp as Maata/Letang yet.

From the NHL website:

"After a week-long arbitration process, the result was the biggest trade in NHL history, which saw Lindros' rights awarded to the Flyers in exchange for six players (Steve Duchesne, Peter Forsberg, Ron Hextall, Kerry Huffman, Mike Ricci and Chris Simon), two draft picks and $15 million."
- cap1681

Like I said, a Stanley Cup

A Stanley Cup
- jmatchett383

LOL Basically.

In 1992, the Nordiques worked out trades for him with both the New York Rangers, and Philadelphia Flyers. Eventually an arbitrator, Larry Bertuzzi (granduncle of Todd Bertuzzi),[8] ruled in favour of the Flyers, for whom Lindros played from 1992 to 2000, most of the time as the team's captain.[9]

Many consider this trade a key reason that the Colorado Avalanche (the new name of the Nordiques after they relocated before the 1995-96 season), went on to be an NHL powerhouse. They received in the trade the rights to eventual Hart Trophy winner Peter Forsberg, as well as Ron Hextall, Chris Simon, Mike Ricci, Kerry Huffman, Steve Duchesne, a 1st round selection (Jocelyn Thibault) in 1993, a 1st round selection (later traded to the Toronto Maple Leafs, later traded to the Washington Capitals—Nolan Baumgartner) in 1994, and $15,000,000 cash. Since the trade, the Avalanche have won eight division titles and two Stanley Cup championships, due in part to the play of Forsberg, and the later addition of Patrick Roy, whom the Avalanche received in a later package deal that included Thibault.[10]

The trade between the Nordiques and the Rangers that was ruled invalid by the arbitrator had Lindros being traded for Doug Weight, Tony Amonte, Alexei Kovalev, John Vanbiesbrouck, three first round draft picks (1993, 1994 & 1995) and $12 million.

I might be in the minority here, but Martin is good, but lets not pretend he's that amazing and irreplaceable.
- sammy87

You and I aren't always on the same page but completely agree here. Good player, solid, but he's by no means a superstar or irreplaceable. I think Maatta is better than Martin right at this very moment. Maybe we got too used to watching the declining Orpiks, Murrays, and Scuderis of the world and made Martin look better than he is.

Not trying to knock the guy but I think he produces exactly as his cap hit says he should. He's not "extremely great value". I'm also disturbed by how he has looked so far this season. Short sample size of course, but he doesn't look particularly sharp.

I still don't get how Pouliot is "untouchable." The guy has played a whopping 1 professional game. While his WHL numbers are legit, the other top-5 defenseman in single season playoff scoring topped out at Greg Hawgood. I'm not saying give him away, but I wouldn't hold him in the same camp as Maata/Letang yet.
- jmatchett383

I'm not in the "Pouliot is untouchable" camp. If the right deal came along, you would have to consider it. It would have to be for a young, top 6 guy who is close to contributing or already contributing at the NHL level. Like a Niederreiter, or Forsberg

You and I aren't always on the same page but completely agree here. Good player, solid, but he's by no means a superstar or irreplaceable. I think Maatta is better than Martin right at this very moment. Maybe we got too used to watching the declining Orpiks, Murrays, and Scuderis of the world and made Martin look better than he is.

Not trying to knock the guy but I think he produces exactly as his cap hit says he should. He's not "extremely great value". I'm also disturbed by how he has looked so far this season. Short sample size of course, but he doesn't look particularly sharp.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

I don't think anyone has ever said he's some crazy irreplaceable superstar. He's a very good top-4 player who could step into a top-pair role without being overwhelmed. He's not a cornerstone player to build with, but he's a very important supporting piece to any team.

I'm not in the "Pouliot is untouchable" camp. If the right deal came along, you would have to consider it. It would have to be for a young, top 6 guy who is close to contributing or already contributing at the NHL level. Like a Niederreiter, or Forsberg
- cap1681

That's how I see him. He's a very highly-touted prospect at a position of strength. So if you can acquire a very highly-touted player at a position of relative weakness, you don't slam the phone.

I'd be all for another Pens/Flyers trade. The last time they made a major move the Pens won the Cup!

I'd be all for another Pens/Flyers trade. The last time they made a major move the Pens won the Cup!
- Topshelf Mountain

You mean Hamhuis' rights for a 3rd rounder?

I might be in the minority here, but Martin is good, but lets not pretend he's that amazing and irreplaceable.
- sammy87

I just think that the timing is bad to move Martin... Martin is definitely replaceable, but there would be a drop off. If Scott Harrington was playing on the 3rd pairing and looked like the real deal and ready to take a top 4 role that's one thing... But if you move Martin, either Simone Despres or Robert Bortuzzo is your new top 4 defenseman. I like them both, but there is nothing that really assures me that either of them can play in that role long term. Can Harrington make the jump? Can Dumoulin? maybe, but without seeing them play a decent amount of NHL hockey, it's a gamble.

But like I said, if there was a hockey deal to be made for a legit top 6 forward, I'm in.

You mean Hamhuis' rights for a 3rd rounder?
- jmatchett383

It gave the Penguins exactly what they needed to win the cup

I still don't get how Pouliot is "untouchable." The guy has played a whopping 1 professional game. While his WHL numbers are legit, the other top-5 defenseman in single season playoff scoring topped out at Greg Hawgood. I'm not saying give him away, but I wouldn't hold him in the same camp as Maata/Letang yet.
- jmatchett383

That is the logical approach. I'm taking the gut feel approach. From the small sample size I've had watching him LordRicky looks legit. The highest draft pick weve had in years, the main piece of the Jordan Staal trade, defenseman of the year awards, will be on ELC for 3 years, the most important piece of the Defensive U drafting philosphy... Just feels like a guy I would regret trading in the long run unless we got, like I mentioned, someone like Evgeny Kuznetsov.

As bad as I want to address the forward situation, Maatta and Pouliot could be top 4 defenseman for the next 15 years.

It gave the Penguins exactly what they needed to win the cup
- cap1681

Losing Hamhuis' rights and a 3rd rounder gave the Penguins a Cup?

Losing Hamhuis' rights and a 3rd rounder gave the Penguins a Cup?
- jmatchett383

I was being sarcastic...