I think this is a case of the possession stats not really telling the story. Either it's short-term bad luck, or the shots the opposition are getting are high-percentage shots because he can't limit them well.
- jmatchett383

The sample-size is much too low for these numbers to be all that meaningful yet anyway.

MDZ has flaws. No one would deny that. I just don't understand why his flaws are worse than ALL of the other defenseman's.
- PhillySportsGuy

Because, as a defenseman, you should be able to play defense. He's a winger in disguise.

I think this is a case of the possession stats not really telling the story. Either it's short-term bad luck, or the shots the opposition are getting are high-percentage shots because he can't limit them well.
- jmatchett383

We need a larger sample size. It shows that MDZ is pushing the play more than any other defenseman though.

The save% while he's on the ice is way too low to be sustainable. Once it evens out a bit, we'll get a better idea.

The Flyers are doing with MacDonald the exact same thing the Islanders did with him.
- PhillySportsGuy

Yes, they are. And Berube admitted that after the Montreal game, that 28 minutes is way too much.

B Schenn hasn't been any better at Center then he has at Wing. He has struggled, and has had success at both positions. B Schenn has to take some responsibility for his own play. Not saying that he hasn't, but he needs to be better.
- MJL

I agree, and the numbers bear it out.

Whether Schenn is a better LW or C is irrelevant to a certain extent. Like you said earlier, if he can't play LW, he'll have no place here with Giroux, Couturier and Lecavalier in the NHL and Laughton in the pipeline. Because of that, they might as well give him as many games at LW as possible and hope he can figure it out. Otherwise he doesn't fit the roster.
- NickTheKid87

And I'm not even including Bellemare who's already gone up to 2C/3C.

The Flyers are doing with MacDonald the exact same thing the Islanders did with him.
- PhillySportsGuy

Again: Baffling. Timonen's loss was significant on many levels, but that may be the biggest

MacDonald hasn't been the problem, and I think Coburn playing well could help, but no, playing MacDonald a ton of minutes just isn't the optimal path

We need a larger sample size. It shows that MDZ is pushing the play more than any other defenseman though.

The save% while he's on the ice is way too low to be sustainable. Once it evens out a bit, we'll get a better idea.
- PhillySportsGuy

Yes, he's pushing the play and they're getting possession. That's all for naught when you turn it over and 5 seconds later it's in your net because of an odd-man rush or a high-percentage chance because you're either caught up the ice or your positioning is deficient.

Because, as a defenseman, you should be able to play defense. He's a winger in disguise.
- jmatchett383

I just don't understand why the coaches are so quick to dismiss Grossmann's flaws like turnovers or getting beat wide, but if MDZ doesn't box someone out, the world is ending.

In my eyes, no one on this team is playing well defensively, but at least MDZ is contributing offensively.

Read has been LW and Umberger has been RW on that line.

Also, is Raffl-G-Simmonds going to be a 60% CF line like Girafflcek was last year? Taking out only elite, puck-possession winger away from the 1st line is a dangerous move.
- Feanor

Yeah, probably.

I think this is a case of the possession stats not really telling the story. Either it's short-term bad luck, or the shots the opposition are getting are high-percentage shots because he can't limit them well.
- jmatchett383

Most likely. But what it really is, is a case of using possession stats to say what you (not you personally) want them to say.

The Flyers are doing with MacDonald the exact same thing the Islanders did with him.
- PhillySportsGuy

Not by choice though

When Amac and Schultz are the guys the coach is forced to use 28 min and 23+ min it's a pig without a head with lipstick

Or something like that

I just don't understand why the coaches are so quick to dismiss Grossmann's flaws like turnovers or getting beat wide, but if MDZ doesn't box someone out, the world is ending.

In my eyes, no one on this team is playing well defensively, but at least MDZ is contributing offensively.
- PhillySportsGuy

Because Grossmann is a proven defensive defenseman who has earned the trust of the coaching staff with his play over the years.

I just don't understand why the coaches are so quick to dismiss Grossmann's flaws like turnovers or getting beat wide, but if MDZ doesn't box someone out, the world is ending.

In my eyes, no one on this team is playing well defensively, but at least MDZ is contributing offensively.
- PhillySportsGuy

Exactly. It's just like loving forwards who never score because they try hard

And I'm not even including Bellemare who's already gone up to 2C/3C.
- Feanor

Yup. Schenn could be a nice replacement for Hartnell up front if he can figure out how to play LW. I could see him being a 25 goal scorer with a couple 30 goal seasons if he gets his act together.

Keep telling myself what?
- MJL

You seem to be suggesting that because the 11-12 Devils, a team whose forwards all bought into their system, got to the finals with a mediocre group of dmen, that the Flyers will succeed with a D that is just as bad when Coburn is healthy and worse when he is not.

I just don't understand why the coaches are so quick to dismiss Grossmann's flaws like turnovers or getting beat wide, but if MDZ doesn't box someone out, the world is ending.

In my eyes, no one on this team is playing well defensively, but at least MDZ is contributing offensively.
- PhillySportsGuy

Define "contributing offensively." Do you mean carrying the puck up the ice and abandoning his defensive assignments? Because if so, that's spot on.

Again, as a defenseman, your #1 priority should be defending. If you have physical limits, that's one thing. But if you're more worried about the offensive side than the defensive side, that's discouraging to me.

Heck, even Mike Green and Erik Karlsson are average defenders. MDZ is like a rover out there.

The Flyers are doing with MacDonald the exact same thing the Islanders did with him.
- PhillySportsGuy

And it sure worked out splendidly for the Isles!

I think this is a case of the possession stats not really telling the story. Either it's short-term bad luck, or the shots the opposition are getting are high-percentage shots because he can't limit them well.
- jmatchett383

Grossmann/Streit have allowed just as many 10-bell looks on net... yet their SV% isn't in the doldrums. That stuff just evens out over the course of 82-games -- the very worst on-ice SV% for any dman last season over 800mins played was 89%. Anything below that is bizarre, yet people are essentially writing off MDZ based on all those goals against right now.

Grossmann/Streit have allowed just as many 10-bell looks on net... yet their SV% isn't in the doldrums. That stuff just evens out over the course of 82-games -- the very worst on-ice SV% for any dman last season over 800mins played was 89%. Anything below that is bizarre, yet people are essentially writing off MDZ based on all those goals against right now.
- Tomahawk

I'm not writing him off. I'm hoping he succeeds. But so far, he's given me 0% reason to believe he will. The dude cannot play defense. He flat out cannot. I would rather have Hal Gill out there, and I HATE Hal Gill.

Not by choice though

When Amac and Schultz are the guys the coach is forced to use 28 min and 23+ min it's a pig without a head with lipstick

Or something like that


- Marc D

That's Berube's fault though. His insistence on not breaking up the other pairs has forced him to play Schultz so many minutes.

That's Berube's fault though. His insistence on not breaking up the other pairs has forced him to play Schultz so many minutes.
- PhillySportsGuy

Yes, that's the solution. Change up one deficient pairing to replace it with another deficient pairing.

Where's the parade starting?

McDavid please..

Grossmann/Streit have allowed just as many 10-bell looks on net... yet their SV% isn't in the doldrums. That stuff just evens out over the course of 82-games -- the very worst on-ice SV% for any dman last season over 800mins played was 89%. Anything below that is bizarre, yet people are essentially writing off MDZ based on all those goals against right now.
- Tomahawk

.778 is not sustainable. It simply isn't. And Jaromir Jagr walking around Nicklas Grossman, who then has to take a penalty, is no better than Michael Del Zotto losing coverage on a man in the corner

It's the same thing. One guy gets a pass, one guy doesn't

I'm not writing him off. I'm hoping he succeeds. But so far, he's given me 0% reason to believe he will. The dude cannot play defense. He flat out cannot. I would rather have Hal Gill out there, and I HATE Hal Gill.
- jmatchett383

Jeez, you're going to hate Ghost.