Doesn't Gardiner have the same types of issues that MDZ ie; he's great offensively but sad in his own end?
- Hextall271

He's basically the exact same player MDZ was before all of hockey decided he wasn't a good player anymore.

(it's like people's memories don't go back further than 18-mos or something)

He's basically the exact same player MDZ was before all of hockey decided he wasn't a good player anymore.
- Tomahawk

That's kind of what I thought. We should trade B Schenn for him and then pair him with MDZ... instant cup.

I agree. An interesting analytic I found was that the team that scored the most goals in a game, wins 100% of the time. It's a very strong indicator of who is going to win the game.
- MJL

That's why I don't think they won their previous games.

He's basically the exact same player MDZ was before all of hockey decided he wasn't a good player anymore.

(it's like people's memories don't go back further than 18-mos or something)
- Tomahawk

Two different teams giving up on a young guy usually isn't a good sign.

Because of how he was as a person, sure

But I'll go to my grave saying that Geoff Sanderson..
- AllInForFlyers

Hey!!

Two different teams giving up on a young guy usually isn't a good sign.
- Feanor

What if Toronto moves Gardiner?

I ask this because that was the debate on the radio: Roman Polak has less ability, but his skillset is different from Gardiner's, as a defensive defenseman. And because Polak has a contract and was traded for, he isn't coming out of the lineup.

And yet, Roman Polak got moved by his previous team. Somebody gave up on him, too, right?

But the narrative is that the offensive guy is the issue

Two different teams giving up on a young guy usually isn't a good sign.
- Feanor

That happened all within the past 12-mos. Before that, MDZ didn't carry even the slightest hint of stigma. He was just another young OD learning to play two-ways under a demanding coach, with mixed results. Like Gardiner.

What if Toronto moves Gardiner?
- AllInForFlyers

That would be one team. I'm talking about the Rags and Preds getting a good long look at MDZ and saying, no thanks.

Those are two strong defensive teams that you would think could shelter MDZ as much as possible. Unlike us.

I just acquired both Streit and H.Lindholm.. it will be interesting to see who has the better game tonight

Hey!!
- KGBflyers10

Sorry, Geoff -- I liked you in Hartford, but you were just nasty as a Flyer

Sorry, Geoff -- I liked you in Hartford, but you were just nasty as a Flyer



- AllInForFlyers

Sanderson strikes me as the kind of guy who would be the first off the Titanic, punching women and children in the face on his way to the lifeboats.

Sanderson strikes me as the kind of guy who would be the first off the Titanic, punching women and children in the face on his way to the lifeboats.
- Tomahawk

Yup

That's why I don't think they won their previous games.
- Streit2ThePoint

Proof positive that it works.

Sanderson strikes me as the kind of guy who would be the first off the Titanic, punching women and children in the face on his way to the lifeboats.
- Tomahawk

Sanderson strikes me as the kind of guy who would be the first off the Titanic, punching women and children in the face on his way to the lifeboats.
- Tomahawk

You people are the worst.

That happened all within the past 12-mos. Before that, MDZ didn't carry even the slightest hint of stigma. He was just another young OD learning to play two-ways under a demanding coach, with mixed results. Like Gardiner.
- Tomahawk

Because once your narrative is set, for better or worse, you are golden or utter crap

Dave Bolland's going to live off those Stanley Cups for the rest of his career, so he's a "leader" and a "heart-and-soul guy". Joe Thornton's probably not going to get one, so he fails as a leader and is an underachiever

Because once your narrative is set, for better or worse, you are golden or utter crap

Dave Bolland's going to live off those Stanley Cups for the rest of his career, so he's a "leader" and a "heart-and-soul guy". Joe Thornton's probably not going to get one, so he fails as a leader and is an underachiever
- AllInForFlyers

That's stupid, and also absolutely true.

Dave Bolland is a solid bottom six forward, who can slide up and down, play the PK and provide grit and leadership. His cap hit is $125K less than Martin St Louis. It's ridiculous.

That's stupid, and also absolutely true.

Dave Bolland is a solid bottom six forward, who can slide up and down, play the PK and provide grit and leadership. His cap hit is $125K less than Martin St Louis. It's ridiculous.
- Jsaquella

That stuff baffles me. We talk about team-based play all the time, yet some guys get more credit or blame and some guys get less credit or blame, all the time -- not just in Philadelphia, but all over the league

How do Joe Pavelski and Logan Couture, for example, escape all the criticism that Thornton and Marleau get? It's baffling

Dave Bolland's going to live off those Stanley Cups for the rest of his career, so he's a "leader" and a "heart-and-soul guy".
- AllInForFlyers

Yeah... Cam Ward's still riding out the glow from his rookie year (and some poop from Red Deer), for pete's sake. He's sooooo clutch.

Meanwhile, Steve Mason is a time bomb waiting to explode, and Devan Dubnyk is a complete lost cause.

That stuff baffles me. We talk about team-based play all the time, yet some guys get more credit or blame and some guys get less credit or blame, all the time -- not just in Philadelphia, but all over the league

How do Joe Pavelski and Logan Couture, for example, escape all the criticism that Thornton and Marleau get? It's baffling
- AllInForFlyers

That's why I just ignore all the nonsense and just come to my own conclusion.

Yeah... Cam Ward's still riding out the glow from his rookie year (and some poop from Red Deer), for pete's sake. He's sooooo clutch.

Meanwhile, Steve Mason is a time bomb waiting to explode, and Devan Dubnyk is a complete lost cause.
- Tomahawk

Exactly -- Mason's narrative nationally is set. You don't even have to read the previews about him, you know what they're going to say already

That's stupid, and also absolutely true.

Dave Bolland is a solid bottom six forward, who can slide up and down, play the PK and provide grit and leadership. His cap hit is $125K less than Martin St Louis. It's ridiculous.
- Jsaquella

Happens to goalies too. Cam Ward has been about an average starting goalie throughout his career but partly because of his Conn Smythe, he has a $6.3m cap hit. That's only $575k less than Lundqvist's was before his recent extension. Also, Michael Leighton.

Yeah... Cam Ward's still riding out the glow from his rookie year (and some poop from Red Deer), for pete's sake. He's sooooo clutch.

Meanwhile, Steve Mason is a time bomb waiting to explode, and Devan Dubnyk is a complete lost cause.
- Tomahawk

Absolutely true. I've probably read 5 articles this fall about how Mason is the biggest weakness on the Flyers, how last year's season was an anomaly and how he's rated after most team's backup tenders.. It drives me bonkers.

That's why I just ignore all the nonsense and just come to my own conclusion.
- MJL

Ha! Exactly -- your problem is that your conclusions don't always match mine, which is clearly incorrect on your part.

That stuff baffles me. We talk about team-based play all the time, yet some guys get more credit or blame and some guys get less credit or blame, all the time -- not just in Philadelphia, but all over the league

How do Joe Pavelski and Logan Couture, for example, escape all the criticism that Thornton and Marleau get? It's baffling
- AllInForFlyers

This is the same principle that makes people think Eli Manning is or was an elite QB.

It takes a team to win and a team to lose but it's easier to scapegoat or to single a player out to make them seem better than they really are.