I like Martin as a player, i just can't get on the idea that our playoff hopes hinge on him being in the lineup.
- cap1681

maybe not to get to the playoffs, but winning in them i think is a different story. no, i wont say he is clearly the most indispensable piece, but i do think he is a big part. he is a solid, top 4 dman, who at times is continuously the team's most versatile and consistent guy.

i'm not saying i wouldnt be totally against moving him, but if its to move him for a second and a prospect, id rather keep him even if that means losing him for nothing. im not going to anoint the pens anything just yet, but they have to at least be on the short list of being considered to contend for the cup this year.

I think he's a very underappreciated player because he's not young and/or dynamic. I think you guys would be singing some sorrows if you lost him.
- jmatchett383

He is a very good defense man. He does all the little things right, and makes this team better. It just hard to swallow if all of the sudden this team isn't competitive if he traded, which is what some people are making it out to be. Would there be drop of at the defense position if he was traded? Yes, but i don't think it would be a huge as some people think.

maybe not to get to the playoffs, but winning in them i think is a different story. no, i wont say he is clearly the most indispensable piece, but i do think he is a big part. he is a solid, top 4 dman, who at times is continuously the team's most versatile and consistent guy.

i'm not saying i wouldnt be totally against moving him, but if its to move him for a second and a prospect, id rather keep him even if that means losing him for nothing. im not going to anoint the pens anything just yet, but they have to at least be on the short list of being considered to contend for the cup this year.
- stayinthefnnet

I wouldn't trade him for picks and prospects. My proposal was trading him to the Kings for Justin Williams, who is in the last year of his contract. Also, it would save the Penguins over a Mil against the cap, which could be used for another rental at the TD.

I like Martin as a player, i just can't get on the idea that our playoff hopes hinge on him being in the lineup.
- cap1681

Lots of good points on Martin. I really was intrigued by the Martin for J. Williams deal.

I know some of you don't necessarily "trust" the young defenseman if Martin were to leave. But if Kunitz or Hornqvist get injured, its not like we have a pipeline of capable NHL forwards.

Sure, we can't 100% feel confident in the blue chip D prospects but I'm a lot more confident in them than I am Downie or Spaling or someone becoming a top 6 winger and weaken the bottom 6 at the same time.

So if were talking depth, I'd rather have the forward right now.

I am not sure of the detail's of Maatta's shoulder surgery but I had rotator cuff surgery in early 2013 and the recovery is long and brutal. I am still not at 100% and still slowly improving a year and a half later. Fortunately the pain wasn't that bad in my case and I stopped taking the pain pills a few days after the surgery.

I know Maatta is a professional athlete and half my age but it still blows my mind that he recovered so fast. I thought for sure we wouldn't see him until January at the earliest. Not only is he back but he had a dominating performance in that first game against Anaheim, with 3 assists. The Pens can't even think about letting him enter the last year of his contract without an extension.
- PghPens668771

Rotator Cuff is much worse than a labrum which is what Maata had. When I hurt my shoulder, the surgeon's comments were look at the bright side, your RC is fine!

He is a very good defense man. He does all the little things right, and makes this team better. It just hard to swallow if all of the sudden this team isn't competitive if he traded, which is what some people are making it out to be. Would there be drop of at the defense position if he was traded? Yes, but i don't think it would be a huge as some people think.
- cap1681

I don't think anyone's saying they stop being competitive if he's traded. What people are saying is that having him on the roster makes them a better team than what you could get in return for trading him.

I wouldn't trade him for picks and prospects. My proposal was trading him to the Kings for Justin Williams, who is in the last year of his contract. Also, it would save the Penguins over a Mil against the cap, which could be used for another rental at the TD.
- cap1681

that is an interesting proposal for sure. id definitely have to think about it, and would have to take a pretty bland route and say i cant make that call right now. for as much as i think martin is an integral part of winning now due to his contributions to the back end, williams may bring just as much, if not more, of that to the forward ranks.

my only worry is letang. if letang is out in the spring, a martin for williams trade would sink the team.

Lots of good points on Martin. I really was intrigued by the Martin for J. Williams deal.

I know some of you don't necessarily "trust" the young defenseman if Martin were to leave. But if Kunitz or Hornqvist get injured, its not like we have a pipeline of capable NHL forwards.

Sure, we can't 100% feel confident in the blue chip D prospects but I'm a lot more confident in them than I am Downie or Spaling or someone becoming a top 6 winger and weaken the bottom 6 at the same time.

So if were talking depth, I'd rather have the forward right now.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Good points, but even if Kunitz/Hornqvist go down, a healthy Sid and Geno should be able to produce anyway because, well, because they're themselves. However, if one of Letang or Ehrhoff goes down? Do you trust Maata to fill their roles without much of a drop? Furthermore, do you trust one of the other young players to fill in Maata's spot without much of a drop? The cascade effect on defense is far more severe than on offense.

In the playoffs, experienced, effective defense trumps offense all day long (2012 not withstanding). Unless someone gives you a deal you just can't say no to, having a top-4 like the Penguins do is paramount (to me) to going toe-to-toe with the likes of LA and Chicago for 4+ games.

I hope if JR has a trade in mind he pulls the trigger in January and doesn't wait until the deadline. I get the whole "trade value goes up" concept but this franchise has consistently tried to make a deadline splash every year and it just never seems to work.

I hope if JR has a trade in mind he pulls the trigger in January and doesn't wait until the deadline. I get the whole "trade value goes up" concept but this franchise has consistently tried to make a deadline splash every year and it just never seems to work.
- Danny_Devito

I think part of the problem in some years past was going for the "name" at the TDL and not the need. There was no need for Murray or Iginla.

Good points, but even if Kunitz/Hornqvist go down, a healthy Sid and Geno should be able to produce anyway because, well, because they're themselves. However, if one of Letang or Ehrhoff goes down? Do you trust Maata to fill their roles without much of a drop? Furthermore, do you trust one of the other young players to fill in Maata's spot without much of a drop? The cascade effect on defense is far more severe than on offense.

In the playoffs, experienced, effective defense trumps offense all day long (2012 not withstanding). Unless someone gives you a deal you just can't say no to, having a top-4 like the Penguins do is paramount (to me) to going toe-to-toe with the likes of LA and Chicago for 4+ games.
- jmatchett383

Fair argument. My short term memory has shown scoring to be an issue in the playoffs though. New system, some new players, improved bottom 6 depth will all help that though. We need Sid and Geno at their best to contend no matter what. Its a tough call, I honestly see both sides.

Now Scuderi for Justin Williams seems like a pretty good deal

Fair argument. My short term memory has shown scoring to be an issue in the playoffs though. New system, some new players, improved bottom 6 depth will all help that though. We need Sid and Geno at their best to contend no matter what. Its a tough call, I honestly see both sides.

Now Scuderi for Justin Williams seems like a pretty good deal
- YouMeAndDupuis9

haha. Scuderi for Alexei Yashin is a good deal.

I think part of the problem in some years past was going for the "name" at the TDL and not the need. There was no need for Murray or Iginla.
- jmatchett383

I had no issue bringing in Murray ....just not at that outrageous price.

Iginla, well Shero said himself "when you get an opportunity to get Jarome Iginla, you get Jarome Iginla"

Good points, but even if Kunitz/Hornqvist go down, a healthy Sid and Geno should be able to produce anyway because, well, because they're themselves. However, if one of Letang or Ehrhoff goes down? Do you trust Maata to fill their roles without much of a drop? Furthermore, do you trust one of the other young players to fill in Maata's spot without much of a drop? The cascade effect on defense is far more severe than on offense.

In the playoffs, experienced, effective defense trumps offense all day long (2012 not withstanding). Unless someone gives you a deal you just can't say no to, having a top-4 like the Penguins do is paramount (to me) to going toe-to-toe with the likes of LA and Chicago for 4+ games.
- jmatchett383

This is why I'm entirely for not trading Martin. Martin is very important to the back end and he makes the team better. trading him makes the team worse. While it will suck to lose him for nothing, that's what good teams have to do in order for a shot at the SC. Look at the Hawks 2010 championship team, they had a lot of players ready to test free agency, but they didn't trade them because they knew they all had value to the team and gave them the best chance to win

I had no issue bringing in Murray ....just not at that outrageous price.

Iginla, well Shero said himself "when you get an opportunity to get Jarome Iginla, you get Jarome Iginla"
- YouMeAndDupuis9

If it was 2003, I'd agree with him.

This is why I'm entirely for not trading Martin. Martin is very important to the back end and he makes the team better. trading him makes the team worse. While it will suck to lose him for nothing, that's what good teams have to do in order for a shot at the SC. Look at the Hawks 2010 championship team, they had a lot of players ready to test free agency, but they didn't trade them because they knew they all had value to the team and gave them the best chance to win
- drummer829

What happened in 2010? It's like there's a black hole in my memory that keeps me from remembering what happened.

What happened in 2010? It's like there's a black hole in my memory that keeps me from remembering what happened.
- jmatchett383

thats what happens when the leights go out

This is why I'm entirely for not trading Martin. Martin is very important to the back end and he makes the team better. trading him makes the team worse. While it will suck to lose him for nothing, that's what good teams have to do in order for a shot at the SC. Look at the Hawks 2010 championship team, they had a lot of players ready to test free agency, but they didn't trade them because they knew they all had value to the team and gave them the best chance to win
- drummer829

I get where people are coming from with this, but within my proposal, the team would be adding a top 6 guy who is a proven playoff performer. One of the things that this team has been lacking over the past few years in the playoffs has been the ability to run 4 effective lines. Adding Williams not only improves the top 6, but improves the bottom 6 as well.

thats what happens when the leights go out
- stayinthefnnet

YOU STOP...NO, IT DIDN'T...AHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!

You know how it was heartbreaking when Hossa's shot went through the crease at the end of Game 6 (even though time had expired)? Yeah, multiply that by like 850.

I get where people are coming from with this, but within my proposal, the team would be adding a top 6 guy who is a proven playoff performer. One of the things that this team has been lacking over the past few years in the playoffs has been the ability to run 4 effective lines in the playoffs. Adding Williams not only improves the top 6, but improves the bottom 6 as well.
- cap1681

I'm not denying that the proposal has weight to it. I'm simply saying that fortifying the defense should outweigh fortifying the offense. I think we've basically come to a head here where we each see the merit of the other side but have differing views.

I get where people are coming from with this, but within my proposal, the team would be adding a top 6 guy who is a proven playoff performer. One of the things that this team has been lacking over the past few years in the playoffs has been the ability to run 4 effective lines in the playoffs. Adding Williams not only improves the top 6, but improves the bottom 6 as well.
- cap1681

definitely a lot of weight on the pro merit side, for sure.

the trickle down effect for depth would be very nice. somehow, adams would still find his way in.

YOU STOP...NO, IT DIDN'T...AHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!

You know how it was heartbreaking when Hossa's shot went through the crease at the end of Game 6 (even though time had expired)? Yeah, multiply that by like 850.
- jmatchett383

LET ME HAVE THIS GOD DAMN IT.

definitely a lot of weight on the pro merit side, for sure.

the trickle down effect for depth would be very nice. somehow, adams would still find his way in.
- stayinthefnnet

There's another point you just made the think of:

If Martin is traded, Scuderi's role and ice time expand.

LET ME HAVE THIS GOD DAMN IT.
- stayinthefnnet

Funny, that's what I was saying heading into OT of Game 6.

definitely a lot of weight on the pro merit side, for sure.

the trickle down effect for depth would be very nice. somehow, adams would still find his way in.
- stayinthefnnet

The idea of a Comeau-Goc-Spaling 4th line in the playoffs is very intriguing.