Now see, THAT is a fairly good straight-up hockey trade (if you take away the "+"). Still, the kids would have to really show that they can handle it, otherwise you're weakening your D substantially.
- jmatchett383

I hear you on that. I really do have a good feeling that they will be able to step up to fill the void. As some one else just mentioned one or two injuries to the forwards could really hamper how Well this team plays compared to right now, which is why I would attempt to get top 6 help before the tdl and especially once ehrhoff can sign an extension. By then I hope Harrington is allowed more playing time over scuderi and Pouliot can be given a shot if an injury comes up.

I hear you on that. I really do have a good feeling that they will be able to step up to fill the void. As some one else just mentioned one or two injuries to the forwards could really hamper how Well this team plays compared to right now, which is why I would attempt to get top 6 help before the tdl and especially once ehrhoff can sign an extension. By then I hope Harrington is allowed more playing time over scuderi and Pouliot can be given a shot if an injury comes up.
- ImScore71

See, part of that is a bit of, I don't want to say "smugness" but I'm not sure of the word. The Penguins (and some fans) seem to have this idea that their young players are able to instantly play and excel in the NHL. And when you've had the likes of Crosby, Malkin, Staal, Letang, Maata, etc, I get the mentality. But as much as you've been blessed, that's not the norm. So when you are all for trading a legit top-3 defender and take the approach of, "Well, we'll just fill in with our young defenders who will fill the void," it's a bit shortsighted, to me.

What happens if you make that trade early and the kids can't handle it? You've just wasted a year on the Sid/Geno train.
- jmatchett383

No one said it's not a gamble, but if a guy like Harrington can step in and not replace Martin, but be close to what he brings, adding a guy like Williams makes the top 6 even more deadly. Especially in the playoffs.

No one said it's not a gamble, but if a guy like Harrington can step in and not replace Martin, but be close to what he brings, adding a guy like Williams makes the top 6 even more deadly. Especially in the playoffs.
- cap1681

I don't see any way that Harrington will come close to the all-around game that Martin brings any time soon. I really think you guys undervalue Martin because of all the other shiny toys you have to play with.

As someone else has pointed out, nobody is going to pony up a top 6 winger for Martin who would essentially be a rental. More than likely it would be a prospect/pick scenario.
I have a feeling he's walking for nothing. Our only hope at winger is brittle Bennett.

As someone else has pointed out, nobody is going to pony up a top 6 winger for Martin who would essentially be a rental. More than likely it would be a prospect/pick scenario.
I have a feeling he's walking for nothing. Our only hope at winger is brittle Bennett.
- all-pgh

Unless it's for a top 6 rental in return

This is way too long of a break in the schedule....Come on NHL, the season needs to be wrapped up by Memorial Day, figure it out!

Unless it's for a top 6 rental in return
- cap1681

I agree 100% with matchett. Its crazy to assume all these young guys can come in and play big minutes without missing a beat, not just now but well into the playoffs when the young ones usually hit the wall.

See, part of that is a bit of, I don't want to say "smugness" but I'm not sure of the word. The Penguins (and some fans) seem to have this idea that their young players are able to instantly play and excel in the NHL. And when you've had the likes of Crosby, Malkin, Staal, Letang, Maata, etc, I get the mentality. But as much as you've been blessed, that's not the norm. So when you are all for trading a legit top-3 defender and take the approach of, "Well, we'll just fill in with our young defenders who will fill the void," it's a bit shortsighted, to me.
- jmatchett383

Yeah I can understand that opinion and I too think a lot of people undervalue Martin. But at least from my point of view its a risk we have to take. Because of the bad asset management of the previous regime I just see martins situation as one we have to capitalize on to get top six help. Now someone just said the obvious, Martin Alone isn't going to get us what I'm looking for. I've always imagined it as a package deal, not necessarily for the sexiest name out there, but I see it as if we need to address the top six next year we have One less asset to offer in Martin because he's already gone. I'm in no way looking for a rental or even rental swaps, so I see it as hopefully obvious to this management that there are expendable pieces to package now to get what we want rather than having to make a deal without a great defenseman like Martin in the equation, And therefor have to pony up even more young guys or picks.

Edit: while it wasn't mentioned, if we don't use him in part of a trade for top six Help now then were basically stuck with saying let's hope this top 6 can keep going as it is, not hit any hiccups or injuries, and that our best hope for top six help is Bennett or kapp who is at least a year off. I guess to sum up I'd rather risk not having Martin and playing the young D than having our offense disappear due to injury or shutdown.

I agree 100% with matchett. Its crazy to assume all these young guys can come in and play big minutes without missing a beat, not just now but well into the playoffs when the young ones usually hit the wall.
- all-pgh

I wouldn't say it's crazy. I'd say it's a gamble. Plus, Harrington isn't a guy coming straight out of Juniors. He's played a full year in the AHL, including a pretty lengthy playoff run last year. I just think personally adding another top 6 guy, especially if that guy is Williams, would offset the downturn in defensive play that may happen with having to replace Martin. The addition of Williams would also make the Pens a much more dangerous team in the playoffs.

Yeah I can understand that opinion and I too think a lot of people undervalue Martin. But at least from my point of view its a risk we have to take. Because of the bad asset management of the previous regime I just see martins situation as one we have to capitalize on to get top six help. Now someone just said the obvious, Martin Alone isn't going to get us what I'm looking for. I've always imagined it as a package deal, not necessarily for the sexiest name out there, but I see it as if we need to address the top six next year we have One less asset to offer in Martin because he's already gone. I'm in no way looking for a rental or even rental swaps, so I see it as hopefully obvious to this management that there are expendable pieces to package now to get what we want rather than having to make a deal without a great defenseman like Martin in the equation, And therefor have to pony up even more young guys or picks.
- ImScore71

So let me ask a question:

If Martin stays on the team, and is a valuable piece of the Penguins winning a Cup this season, is it worth him leaving at the end of the season?

I wouldn't say it's crazy. I'd say it's a gamble. Plus, Harrington isn't a guy coming straight out of Juniors. He's played a full year in the AHL, including a pretty lengthy playoff run last year. I just think personally adding another top 6 guy, especially if that guy is Williams, would offset the downturn in defensive play that may happen with having to replace Martin. The addition of Williams would also make the Pens a much more dangerous team in the playoffs.
- cap1681

I'd argue that defensive depth is more valuable in the playoffs that the addition of a top-6 winger.

I'd argue that defensive depth is more valuable in the playoffs that the addition of a top-6 winger.
- jmatchett383

Even if that addition is the reigning Conn Smythe winner?

I'd argue that defensive depth is more valuable in the playoffs that the addition of a top-6 winger.
- jmatchett383

Yeah but Kunitz and Dupes are 35, who knows how they will hold up over the season. Benett is always hurt. There is nobody that can step up after that. It's really the only hole in the roster. The Pens still will have Maata, Letang and Ehroff as the top 3 which is pretty nice IMO.

Avs win with .2 secs left.

So let me ask a question:

If Martin stays on the team, and is a valuable piece of the Penguins winning a Cup this season, is it worth him leaving at the end of the season?
- jmatchett383

I'd say yes because it's been clear he's going to test FA unless we overpay on $$ and term. Also we have such a logjam on D prospects. Now one could say why not Try to trade one or a bunch of them but I honestly don't see anyone trading a top 6F for a bunch of kids with little experience . But as a package with him a younger d, and pics seems like it might be enough to get someone who has some contract left and not just a rental.

Yeah but Kunitz and Dupes are 35, who knows how they will hold up over the season. Benett is always hurt. There is nobody that can step up after that. It's really the only hole in the roster. The Pens still will have Maata, Letang and Ehroff as the top 3 which is pretty nice IMO.
- sammy87

I dont think any trades will be made till after Erhoff signs... No way that the Pens risk losing Martin if they can not resign Erhoff...

I dont think any trades will be made till after Erhoff signs... No way that the Pens risk losing Martin if they can not resign Erhoff...
- hipcheck_goalie

This*

Yeah but Kunitz and Dupes are 35, who knows how they will hold up over the season. Benett is always hurt. There is nobody that can step up after that. It's really the only hole in the roster. The Pens still will have Maata, Letang and Ehroff as the top 3 which is pretty nice IMO.
- sammy87

Exactly, if we don't use Martin In a trade for top 6 help and let him walk we have wingers who are up there in age, Bb who is a big question mark and no possible top 6 help until the next season with kapp. I'd say the risk of playing two to three young but very promising D is worth it because without Martin for A package we don't have a deal that's enticing enough to get someone who's not a rental or even top 6 useful.

Even if that addition is the reigning Conn Smythe winner?
- cap1681

Depending on the Conn Smythe Trophy winner (are we talking 92/93 Patrick Roy or 03/04 Brad Richards), I'd say yes.

Exactly, if we don't use Martin In a trade for top 6 help and let him walk we have wingers who are up there in age, Bb who is a big question mark and no possible top 6 help until the next season with kapp. I'd say the risk of playing two to three young but very promising D is worth it because without Martin for A package we don't have a deal that's enticing enough to get someone who's not a rental or even top 6 useful.
- ImScore71

If that's the case, then I DEFINITELY wouldn't trade him. If you're considering this the last hurrah of sorts for this current group due to core pieces moving on/regressing, then you should be doing everything possible to win this season, and that is best served by letting Martin stay and then reload with younger guys for a nother run in 2-3 years.

I like Martin as a player, i just can't get on the idea that our playoff hopes hinge on him being in the lineup.

I like Martin as a player, i just can't get on the idea that our playoff hopes hinge on him being in the lineup.
- cap1681

I think he's a very underappreciated player because he's not young and/or dynamic. I think you guys would be singing some sorrows if you lost him.

I have 2 little kids so I've been putting my surgery off for a few years now. I'm sure I'll regret that decision some where down the line.
- LetsGoPens!!

I am not sure of the detail's of Maatta's shoulder surgery but I had rotator cuff surgery in early 2013 and the recovery is long and brutal. I am still not at 100% and still slowly improving a year and a half later. Fortunately the pain wasn't that bad in my case and I stopped taking the pain pills a few days after the surgery.

I know Maatta is a professional athlete and half my age but it still blows my mind that he recovered so fast. I thought for sure we wouldn't see him until January at the earliest. Not only is he back but he had a dominating performance in that first game against Anaheim, with 3 assists. The Pens can't even think about letting him enter the last year of his contract without an extension.

If that's the case, then I DEFINITELY wouldn't trade him. If you're considering this the last hurrah of sorts for this current group due to core pieces moving on/regressing, then you should be doing everything possible to win this season, and that is best served by letting Martin stay and then reload with younger guys for a nother run in 2-3 years.
- jmatchett383

Sound logic for sure but I see this through the lense of forward and scoring depth rather than a fear of regression of duper and kuni. It may seem silly for Some of this fan base or those on the outside because we have Geno Sid and now hornqvist but if they are shut down again or one more top 6 f goes out with injury it'll spell doom for this team. Adding top 6 help pushes some down the lineup and gives us the secondary scoring we've been lacking and injury insurance.

FfS this comment box and the iOS keyboard keep spazzing out and disappearing making me hit other things