What do I mean? Simple. If I am paying a guy $3.6mm and he can't be effective unless he's paired with my better defensemen, they I look to dump him as quickly as possible and bring in a cheaper guy.

No need to waste $3.6mm in cap space on a guy when there's several guys making $1mm or so who can also be solid defensemen when paired with your top guys.
- Jsaquella

It would be ignorant to suggest we've seen the best of Schenn if he clearly hasn't been paired properly. Hey, let's trade Luke Schenn away, another young player of potential, so he can find the right pair somewhere else and possibly plow down our players in the defensive zone when we face him. The problem to me isn't Schenn, it's guys like Del Zotto or Meszaros. I'm far from a Grossmann hater but I fully expect him to be gone in two years, while Luke Schenn moves up and possibly does a better job in replacing Grossmann.

Name one team that has a worse defensive group than the Flyers?

The only one, perhaps, is this year's doormat - the Buffalo Sabres.

It would be ignorant to suggest we've seen the best of Schenn if he clearly hasn't been paired properly. Hey, let's trade Luke Schenn away, another young play of potential, so he can find the right pair somewhere else and possibly plow down our players in the defensive zone when we face him. The problem to me isn't Schenn, it's guys like Del Zotto or Meszaros. I'm far from a Grossmann hater but I fully expect him to be gone in two years, while Luke Schenn moves up and possibly does a better job in replacing Grossmann.
- SuperSchennBros

1. I don't think Luke Schenn has the potential to be a whole lot more than he is now.

2. He's making $3.6mm. He should be able to anchor a pair or at least be solid in his own role without a partner to carry him.

3. Yes, being paired with Del Zotto and Meszaros was bad for him. Again, if he needs to be paired with one of the team's better defensemen to be effective, I'd rather have a cheaper option. You can find a guy who needs to be carried for a lot less than $3.6mm per year

All that said, Schenn hasn't been as bad as some of the other defensemen this season. My worry is that he's not markedly better than a half-crippled Grossmann right now. Grossmann was slow and is recovering from surgery on his leg...and Schenn is still not consistently better than him.

1. I don't think Luke Schenn has the potential to be a whole lot more than he is now.

2. He's making $3.6mm. He should be able to anchor a pair or at least be solid in his own role without a partner to carry him.

3. Yes, being paired with Del Zotto and Meszaros was bad for him. Again, if he needs to be paired with one of the team's better defensemen to be effective, I'd rather have a cheaper option. You can find a guy who needs to be carried for a lot less than $3.6mm per year

All that said, Schenn hasn't been as bad as some of the other defensemen this season. My worry is that he's not markedly better than a half-crippled Grossmann right now. Grossmann was slow and is recovering from surgery on his leg...and Schenn is still not consistently better than him.
- Jsaquella

I agree with this entire post!

Re: Both Schenns for Myers

I'd do it, in a heartbeat. I've seen nothing from B. Schenn that tells me he is going to be anything special, I just don't see either the hockey sense or the work ethic. Also, while he has struggled, I still like Myers much more than Luke Schenn. Myers is still only 24 and you don't find many mobile 6'8 dmen out there. Plus, huge guys like Myers often take a long time to reach their potential and his ceiling is much greater than that of Luke Schenn
- BiggE

I think the grass is always greener on the other side. Myers also has his issues of inconsistencies and sometimes injuries. I want him too but it won't be long until this fan base turns on him when the legs begin to slow down and we're stuck with a very heavy deal.

Name one team that has a worse defensive group than the Flyers?

The only one, perhaps, is this year's doormat - the Buffalo Sabres.
- bradleyc4

Oh c'mon, surely there's a couple KHL teams that are worse.

i think it would be about the same honestly, grossmans speed would be taken advantage of, where as AMAC's lack of hockey sense would be taken advantage of.
- tweaver3312

Grossmann doesn't have more hockey sense, and his passing and puck handling are much worse than MacDonald's. This will be a better example as the year goes on but so far:

Grossmann - 4 icings in 50:49.

MacDonald - 1 icing in 64:29.

I think the grass is always greener on the other side. Myers also has his issues of inconsistencies and sometimes injuries. I want him too but it won't be long until this fan base turns on him when the legs begin to slow down and we're stuck with a very heavy deal.
- SuperSchennBros

He'd be another whipping boy on a blueline full of whipping boys.

0-2-1 1pt

Tue Oct 14, 2014 Ducks 7:00 PM
Sat Oct 18, 2014 Stars 8:00 PM
Tue Oct 21, 2014 Blackhawks 8:30 PM
Wed Oct 22, 2014 Penguins 8:00 PM
Sat Oct 25, 2014 Red Wings 7:00 PM
Tue Oct 28, 2014 Kings 7:00 PM
Thu Oct 30, 2014 Lightning 7:30 PM

How are we feeling about October?

Over/Under 4pts

I'm not trying to be miserable (Bill ) but this is a very sad reality folks.

It would be ignorant to suggest we've seen the best of Schenn if he clearly hasn't been paired properly. Hey, let's trade Luke Schenn away, another young player of potential, so he can find the right pair somewhere else and possibly plow down our players in the defensive zone when we face him. The problem to me isn't Schenn, it's guys like Del Zotto or Meszaros. I'm far from a Grossmann hater but I fully expect him to be gone in two years, while Luke Schenn moves up and possibly does a better job in replacing Grossmann.
- SuperSchennBros

cant imagine superschennbros would be here defending a schenn brother.

Name one team that has a worse defensive group than the Flyers?

The only one, perhaps, is this year's doormat - the Buffalo Sabres.
- bradleyc4

The Kings (of Sacramento of course)

Who is first D call up from the Phantoms?
Sounds like Manning from what I've read.
Assuming they are not going to rush the young guys like Ghost, Hagg, and Alt.

Who is first D call up from the Phantoms?
Sounds like Manning from what I've read.
Assuming they are not going to rush the young guys like Ghost, Hagg, and Alt.
- Marc D

Depends on who gets injured and for how long.

0-2-1 1pt

Tue Oct 14, 2014 Ducks 7:00 PM
Sat Oct 18, 2014 Stars 8:00 PM
Tue Oct 21, 2014 Blackhawks 8:30 PM
Wed Oct 22, 2014 Penguins 8:00 PM
Sat Oct 25, 2014 Red Wings 7:00 PM
Tue Oct 28, 2014 Kings 7:00 PM
Thu Oct 30, 2014 Lightning 7:30 PM

How are we feeling about October?

Over/Under 4pts

I'm not trying to be miserable (Bill ) but this is a very sad reality folks.
- mayorofangrytown

I'm taking the over. They'll pick up 5 points.

Oh c'mon, surely there's a couple KHL teams that are worse.
- Jsaquella

Hell without Coburn and Grossmann, I think the Phantoms D group is better right than the Flyers right now!

He'd be another whipping boy on a blueline full of whipping boys.
- NickTheKid87

He would. The lure of a Myers or Bogosian is that they have higher ceilings than anyone on our current D. Quite often a guy who struggled with his first team experiences sort of a re-birth in a new situation. It doesn't always happen-Luke Schenn is still the inconsistent guy he was in Toronto-but the potential of guys like Myers or Bogosian is enticing.

0-2-1 1pt

Tue Oct 14, 2014 Ducks 7:00 PM
Sat Oct 18, 2014 Stars 8:00 PM
Tue Oct 21, 2014 Blackhawks 8:30 PM
Wed Oct 22, 2014 Penguins 8:00 PM
Sat Oct 25, 2014 Red Wings 7:00 PM
Tue Oct 28, 2014 Kings 7:00 PM
Thu Oct 30, 2014 Lightning 7:30 PM

How are we feeling about October?

Over/Under 4pts

I'm not trying to be miserable (Bill ) but this is a very sad reality folks.
- mayorofangrytown

Thats one ugly month

Name one team that has a worse defensive group than the Flyers?

The only one, perhaps, is this year's doormat - the Buffalo Sabres.
- bradleyc4

They have Ristolainen in the lineup. At least they have one player with upside.

And hell, apparently we're done plumbing the depths of the Islanders D, now we're stalking Sabres defensemen.

Who is first D call up from the Phantoms?
Sounds like Manning from what I've read.
Assuming they are not going to rush the young guys like Ghost, Hagg, and Alt.
- Marc D

Don't count out Lauridsen. Hextall says he wanted a guy with experience and he and Manning best fit that description.

Grossmann doesn't have more hockey sense, and his passing and puck handling are much worse than MacDonald's. This will be a better example as the year goes on but so far:

Grossmann - 4 icings in 50:49.

MacDonald - 1 icing in 64:29.
- Feanor

i love numbers as much as the next guy... sure grossman ices the puck at times. unneeded times as well... but he turns it over less (watching the game anyway). he knows his limitations, where as i dont think amac does.

also keep in my nick is currently recovering from a surgery. itll take him time to get back to 100%

but seriously this is like arguing over anchovies, or sardines on my pizza, i dont want either.

They have Ristolainen in the lineup. At least they have one player with upside.

And hell, apparently we're done plumbing the depths of the Islanders D, now we're stalking Sabres defensemen.
- mayorofangrytown

1. I don't think Luke Schenn has the potential to be a whole lot more than he is now.

2. He's making $3.6mm. He should be able to anchor a pair or at least be solid in his own role without a partner to carry him.

3. Yes, being paired with Del Zotto and Meszaros was bad for him. Again, if he needs to be paired with one of the team's better defensemen to be effective, I'd rather have a cheaper option. You can find a guy who needs to be carried for a lot less than $3.6mm per year

All that said, Schenn hasn't been as bad as some of the other defensemen this season. My worry is that he's not markedly better than a half-crippled Grossmann right now. Grossmann was slow and is recovering from surgery on his leg...and Schenn is still not consistently better than him.
- Jsaquella

We traded for Luke Schenn's deal! What's changed since making a deal that probably never should have happened? What sort of pair is going to make Del Zotto better? Or Grossmann better? Or Schultz? Has a raise made MacDonald a number one defenseman?

I don't think there is anything wrong with getting Luke Schenn a better D partner, especially if we've seen better. I think the pairs should be considered being switched up as we speak.

0-2-1 1pt

Tue Oct 14, 2014 Ducks 7:00 PM
Sat Oct 18, 2014 Stars 8:00 PM
Tue Oct 21, 2014 Blackhawks 8:30 PM
Wed Oct 22, 2014 Penguins 8:00 PM
Sat Oct 25, 2014 Red Wings 7:00 PM
Tue Oct 28, 2014 Kings 7:00 PM
Thu Oct 30, 2014 Lightning 7:30 PM

How are we feeling about October?

Over/Under 4pts

I'm not trying to be miserable (Bill ) but this is a very sad reality folks.
- mayorofangrytown

you told us this was the master plan

It's proceeding like clockwork

Who is first D call up from the Phantoms?
Sounds like Manning from what I've read.
Assuming they are not going to rush the young guys like Ghost, Hagg, and Alt.
- Marc D

Who's rushing Alt? He's a second yr pro. Maybe if we keep these guys in the minors forever we can just flush them from the system and no one will remember them.

Name one team that has a worse defensive group than the Flyers?

The only one, perhaps, is this year's doormat - the Buffalo Sabres.
- bradleyc4

Edmonton's is still pretty bad, believe it or not -- surprised me how soft they were. There is skill but no toughness; I have seen them twice now.

Of the handful of other teams I have seen so far, well, I will just say it: The Flyers' limitations are obvious.