Simple question: How many teams would put Hartsy in their lineup? Classic case of, "he isn't on my team anymore so he sucks!"
- coffee junkie

No, I thought he was struggling when he was here. If you've watch him the last two seasons, you'll see that he isn't anything special anymore. He's better than Umberger, sure, but better to the point that the Flyers were fleeced in the deal? That's a little ridiculous. Hartnell's contract was a burden and he plays a physical game which notoriously doesn't age well. He's 32 and has 5 years left on his contract with a $4.75m cap hit. Factor in his undisciplined play and lack of defensive ability and you don't have much of anything in terms of value.

If I had to choose one player, for one year, all things equal, I'd take Hartnell. However, that's not the case. There are other things at play. Would I have liked the Flyers to get more in return? Of course but this is far from an "ugly" trade. If anything it'll be trading irrelevancies in the grand scheme of things.

And how many would take RJ?
- coffee junkie

At least one! But I think this question should be asked after this season, and I think the answer for both players will be quite different.

Bottom line where we wont agree is that I think Hartnell is declining just as much as Umberger is. I think their production will be similar, and I think the two less years in the contract, which happens to coincide with the contract years of a few important players on this team, makes it worth it in the long run.

This wasn't a trade for now, it was a trade for later, and I think you VASTLY over rate what Hartnell is worth.

Using last season as a barometer...

If Umberger scores 12-15 goals with 35pim (which I think Is reasonable), and Hartnell scores 16-20 with 110pim what would be your opinion?

Personally I think that is how this season plays out. I could be wrong.
- MBFlyerfan

Are these numbers atmospheric or gage?

I'm happy they got rid of Hartnell's deal. Liked the player, but that deal could be an albatross in a couple years
- Jsaquella

I don't believe in getting rid of a player just to do do. I do think you need to get value. From my understanding, they weren't even shopping him, the Jackets made the call. Get something of substance in return. He was a very successful player here, Hextall could have done better in my opinion or let him play through another season.

Are these numbers atmospheric or gage?
- jmatchett383

A little of both...

I respect this comment. I do fear that the 'other considerations' are reaching for straws though.
- coffee junkie

In a couple years when they need to re-up Voracek, Schenn and Couturier, it's a much easier buy out than Hartnell would be

In a couple years when they need to re-up Voracek, Schenn and Couturier, it's a much easier buy out than Hartnell would be
- Jsaquella

This

A little of both...

- MBFlyerfan

YOU CAN'T DO THAT! You'll be off by 14.7 (assuming you're in the USA).

I don't believe in getting rid of a player just to do do. I do think you need to get value. From my understanding, they weren't even shopping him, the Jackets made the call. Get something of substance in return. He was a very successful player here, Hextall could have done better in my opinion or let him play through another season.
- SuperSchennBros

I don't think they could have got much more for him. That contract is gonna look bad in 3 or 4 years.

This
- MBFlyerfan

Or potential trade chip. 1 year of $4.5mm for a vet is easier to deal than 3 at $4.75mm

Perhaps it may be time to stop giving out these long term overpaid contracts.

Perhaps it may be time to stop giving out these long term overpaid contracts.
- flyer_nutter

Perhaps it may be time to stop giving out these long term overpaid contracts.
- flyer_nutter

Yes, this, too.

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Wayne Watch, Fourth Line, Phantoms Roster, Quick Hits
- bmeltzer

Can the fourth line just be Akeson-Bellemare-Jones with no Rinaldo? Please?

Peter Mueller on unconditional waivers, Blues looking to terminate his deal. Apparently he wants to go back to Europe

Can the fourth line just be Akeson-Bellemare-Jones with no Rinaldo? Please?
- mochoson

I was surprised by the kid in pre-season he played well. I don't really expect it all to continue but he's earned a look. Might as well with his ass signed for the next 2 years.

OMG: Hartnell trade talk!

I don't care why the trade was made or how it plays out over time honestly. It all comes down to not getting value for Hartnell at the time of the trade. Plain and simple the only people I have seen even play with the idea that it was a fair return are Flyers fans. The media smirks and makes comments about it: one example- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrQkzuScxuM

Fans of other clubs are brutally attacking about it (as expected). But if you are not a Flyers fan it is painfully obviously that the trade was ugly. I guess we will wait for December to truly make the first evaluation and then again in 3 years when RJs contract is up. I'm hoping I am wrong but it doesn't really matter, what maters is that value was not realized at the time of the trade. I have to be honest, I am holding it against Hexy.
- coffee junkie

So if you're a Flyers fan, and you see some potential pros to this trade, you're not being objective, and you think that only because you're a Flyers fan?

Because a youtube video of a media opinion, and fans of other teams, are an infallible source of whether it was a good or bad trade.

And it's being held against Hextall, before even a single game is played.

Perhaps it may be time to stop giving out these long term overpaid contracts.
- flyer_nutter

Agreed, but that's gonna take every GM being willing to let the (impending) free agent du jour go/pass them by. I don't see it happening.

Case in point!

I disagree, Hartnell is a good player and the majority can see his value is greater then a player considered a buyout candidate (even if it wasn't going to happen) and a 3rd. We will need to agree to disagree because I am not going to change my mind here. 3 people have already said it was a fair trade, yet oddly all three are Flyers phans. I commend Flyers fans that can be impartial and actually admit that it was bad. Makes us look less 'cluless' as you put it.
- coffee junkie

So if a Flyers fan disagrees with your point of view on the trade, they are not being impartial! And they are clueless!

Agreed, but that's gonna take every GM being willing to let the (impending) free agent du jour go/pass them by. I don't see it happening.
- tangent_man

LeCavalier, Macdonald, Streit, and 1 of Umberger/Hartnell.

The Flyers should look at themselves first and foremost imo.

Just have to be selective that's all. Wait for the right move instead of the best thing at the time. Hopefully Hextall is free to do just that and not have pressure/input coming from above.

I was surprised by the kid in pre-season he played well. I don't really expect it all to continue but he's earned a look. Might as well with his ass signed for the next 2 years.
- flyer_nutter

......pretty please?

They're a deeper/better team up front with Hartnell as 1LW and B Schenn on the 2nd or 3rd line than with Umberger.
- bradleyc4

That remains to be seen. If Schenn can play well on the first line. And Umberger can bring better balance, and better all around play, along with better discipline. That can help the Flyers become a better 5 on 5 team.

......pretty please?
- mochoson

Would you be more in favour of him helping coach the Phantoms with our old friend Cote?

LeCavalier, Macdonald, Streit, and 1 of Umberger/Hartnell.

The Flyers should look at themselves first and foremost imo.

Just have to be selective that's all. Wait for the right move instead of the best thing at the time. Hopefully Hextall is free to do just that and not have pressure/input coming from above.
- flyer_nutter

To this point, Streit was an excellent signing. It remains to be seen how the other player work out long term. Lecavalier struggled last year and was injured. Have to see if he bounces back. MacDonald has upgraded the Flyers defense. Umberger has yet to play a single regular season game yet.

To this point, Streit was an excellent signing. It remains to be seen how the other player work out long term. Lecavalier sturggles last year and was injured. Have to see if he bounces back. MacDonald has upgraded the Flyers defense. Umberger has yet to play a single regular season game yet.
- MJL

If Streit manages to keep up his level of play for the rest of that contract and avoid injury it will be a pleasant surprise. I wont hold my breath on that though.

We can disagree that's fine, I think those 4 contracts are anchors and look forward to being rid of them when the time comes.