you feel this because of the lineup changes or because possession/corgi/yadayada ?
- -davies-

They're a deeper/better team up front with Hartnell as 1LW and B Schenn on the 2nd or 3rd line than with Umberger.

Umberger is more versatile and a better fit in the bottom-six. That part I get.

And Hartnell is likely to fall off a cliff at some point, and isn't the kind of guy you can ease out of your line-up with meaningful bottom-six minutes. He doesn't have the speed or the defensive acumen.

The trade also opens the door for a larger role for Brayden Schenn.

So unless Schenn can match with Hartnell brought production-wise (which is certainly plausible), this trade will not be good short-term, but perhaps long-term.
- bradleyc4

The biggest benefits are a bigger role for Schenn & shorter term, so it's definitely a deal for long term rather than short term benefits.

I get that aspect if it which is why I was ok with it. But it's really a lateral move at best for the immediate future

They're a deeper/better team up front with Hartnell as 1LW and B Schenn on the 2nd or 3rd line than with Umberger.
- bradleyc4

In the short term, I agree. At least offensively.

Case in point!

I disagree, Hartnell is a good player and the majority can see his value is greater then a player considered a buyout candidate (even if it wasn't going to happen) and a 3rd. We will need to agree to disagree because I am not going to change my mind here. 3 people have already said it was a fair trade, yet oddly all three are Flyers phans. I commend Flyers fans that can be impartial and actually admit that it was bad. Makes us look less 'cluless' as you put it.
- coffee junkie

ill bookmark this and we can re visit halfway through the year...seem fair?

The Lecavalier line just seems like throwing the three leftovers together and seeing what sticks. Every other line seems set. I personally never would have made the Hartnell/Umberger deal, mostly because our top line seemed set. I get the idea behind the trade but it doesn't mean it was a good idea. For the most part I likes last season's team better then this season's team. This team could go either way though. I expect a rough start.
- SuperSchennBros

I'm happy they got rid of Hartnell's deal. Liked the player, but that deal could be an albatross in a couple years

Having seen Hartnell play, I don't know how anyone could think that this was a lopsided trade in CBJ's favor. While Hartnell scored 20 goals and had 52 points last year, he played undisciplined and, at times, almost lazily. He is average defensively at best and instead of creating energy, he took it away with a bad penalty more often than not. This isn't the 37 goal Hartnell from 2011-12, who the media and outsiders seem to think he is.
- NickTheKid87

Simple question: How many teams would put Hartsy in their lineup? Classic case of, "he isn't on my team anymore so he sucks!"

I'm happy they got rid of Hartnell's deal. Liked the player, but that deal could be an albatross in a couple years
- Jsaquella

There is a part of me who believes it was an albatross the day he signed it.

I dunno man, Hartnell always used to look fantastic in preseason games. Better to write Umberger off right now to save time.
- Feanor

Yes, it's always a good idea to beat the rush when burying a player.

/goes on another message board to call Jack Eichel a fraud

Simple question: How many teams would put Hartsy in their lineup? Classic case of, "he isn't on my team anymore so he sucks!"
- coffee junkie

Do you mean in their top 6?

OMG: Hartnell trade talk!

I don't care why the trade was made or how it plays out over time honestly. It all comes down to not getting value for Hartnell at the time of the trade. Plain and simple the only people I have seen even play with the idea that it was a fair return are Flyers fans. The media smirks and makes comments about it: one example- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrQkzuScxuM

Fans of other clubs are brutally attacking about it (as expected). But if you are not a Flyers fan it is painfully obviously that the trade was ugly. I guess we will wait for December to truly make the first evaluation and then again in 3 years when RJs contract is up. I'm hoping I am wrong but it doesn't really matter, what maters is that value was not realized at the time of the trade. I have to be honest, I am holding it against Hexy.
- coffee junkie

Straight up hockey trade? Definitely not a good move. Cap factors and other considerations it gets a bit better, but it's not Zhitnik for Coburn or anything

ill bookmark this and we can re visit halfway through the year...seem fair?
- PhillaBully

Great. 3 years from now too. Still, at the point of sale (trade) we got quarters on the dollar. Bad asset management by Hexy, that is what I don't like.

There is a part of me who believes it was an albatross the day he signed it.
- MBFlyerfan

His level of play since signing it did not match what he did immediately prior, that's for sure

Yes, it's always a good idea to beat the rush when burying a player.

/goes on another message board to call Jack Eichel a fraud
- johndewar

I beat you to that. Did the same with McDavid, too, apparently.

Do you mean in their top 6?
- MBFlyerfan

entire lineup

entire lineup
- coffee junkie

Probably every team, including the Flyers.

Case in point!

I disagree, Hartnell is a good player and the majority can see his value is greater then a player considered a buyout candidate (even if it wasn't going to happen) and a 3rd. We will need to agree to disagree because I am not going to change my mind here. 3 people have already said it was a fair trade, yet oddly all three are Flyers phans. I commend Flyers fans that can be impartial and actually admit that it was bad. Makes us look less 'cluless' as you put it.
- coffee junkie

I am impartial. I didn't want five more years of Hartnell falling over and taking stupid penalties, and am happy to have replaced him with two or three years of Umberger.

Straight up hockey trade? Definitely not a good move. Cap factors and other considerations it gets a bit better, but it's not Zhitnik for Coburn or anything
- Jsaquella

I respect this comment. I do fear that the 'other considerations' are reaching for straws though.

Probably every team, including the Flyers.
- MBFlyerfan

And how many would take RJ?

I beat you to that. Did the same with McDavid, too, apparently.
- jmatchett383

Yeah, there's something a little off about that kid...

Great. 3 years from now too. Still, at the point of sale (trade) we got quarters on the dollar. Bad asset management by Hexy, that is what I don't like.
- coffee junkie

It's not bad asset management. You just have an inflated idea of what Hartnell signed till he turns 37 was worth.

I beat you to that. Did the same with McDavid, too, apparently.
- jmatchett383

That's good hustle, right there.

I am impartial. I didn't want five more years of Hartnell falling over and taking stupid penalties, and am happy to have replaced him with two or three years of Umberger.
- Feanor

I think a big part of the problem was that the Flyers bought high and ended up having to sell low. If they hadn't locked him in after a career year, they likely could have gotten him cheaper, especially after his disastrous 12/13 season. Maybe a shorter term, lower AAV deal. Oh well, it's all Gatorade under the bleachers now.

Simple question: How many teams would put Hartsy in their lineup? Classic case of, "he isn't on my team anymore so he sucks!"
- coffee junkie

I'd put him in my lineup, but not on the top line and if he isn't on the top line, he is over paid.

Based on the personnel the Flyers had prior to the trade, Hartnell began to have a falling out as a versatile player. He only had so many places he could go in the lineup and it was clear he was becoming a less and less effective top line player each year after his peak 37 goal season.

That's good hustle, right there.
- johndewar

I backchecked the poop out of it, too.

I respect this comment. I do fear that the 'other considerations' are reaching for straws though.
- coffee junkie

Using last season as a barometer...

If Umberger scores 12-15 goals with 35pim (which I think Is reasonable), and Hartnell scores 16-20 with 110pim what would be your opinion?

Personally I think that is how this season plays out. I could be wrong.