yup me 2....18 goals playing next to giroux and first pp minutes is a disgrace.
- PhillaBully

Umberger is not likely going to play with Giroux or on the first PP.

actually two less years...Umberger's style of play is also different than hartnell's. You are comparing apples to oranges i'm afraid
- PhillaBully

memory fail on the contract.. but... I'm not sure where you get that I'm comparing apples and oranges?

Umberger is not likely going to play with Giroux or on the first PP.
- MJL

Not sure anyone is suggesting that.

Yes. Hartnell did most of his damage on the PP and what really needed improvement was 5 v 5 play.
- Hextall271

Umberger did most of his damage on the PP, as well. They didn't get any better at 5-on-5 with this trade (on paper). If anything, they got worse.

Only if you disregard how bad it is to take needless penalties at ES.

The trouble is, nobody knows if Columbus would have used a CBO on Umberger. It's possible Hextall simply felt he's still a helpful, versatile guy who can help.

It seems clear that they wanted Hartnell gone, whether it was age, contract or discipline . They may not have had a better deal available than taking Umberger.

As it is, I share concerns about him and about him and Levavalier together. It will obviously sort itself out, but I don't like that line. I'd rather see them split up, but that's me. I just don't see them being effective enough at 5 on 5
- Jsaquella

What can you do other than swapping Umberger with Akeson?

The first two lines are pretty well set.

I try my best.

Where my Supernatural homies at?!
- Giroux_Is_God

One right here!!!

DVR will be flowing....SHEILD, Flash and Supernatural all in one evening. Arrow tomorrow...

The trouble is, nobody knows if Columbus would have used a CBO on Umberger. It's possible Hextall simply felt he's still a helpful, versatile guy who can help.

It seems clear that they wanted Hartnell gone, whether it was age, contract or discipline . They may not have had a better deal available than taking Umberger.

As it is, I share concerns about him and about him and Levavalier together. It will obviously sort itself out, but I don't like that line. I'd rather see them split up, but that's me. I just don't see them being effective enough at 5 on 5
- Jsaquella

Umberger is more versatile and a better fit in the bottom-six. That part I get.

And Hartnell is likely to fall off a cliff at some point, and isn't the kind of guy you can ease out of your line-up with meaningful bottom-six minutes. He doesn't have the speed or the defensive acumen.

The trade also opens the door for a larger role for Brayden Schenn.

So unless Schenn can match with Hartnell brought production-wise (which is certainly plausible), this trade will not be good short-term, but perhaps long-term.

One right here!!!

DVR will be flowing....SHEILD, Flash and Supernatural all in one evening. Arrow tomorrow...
- juiced

(for all three shows)

OMG: Hartnell trade talk!

I don't care why the trade was made or how it plays out over time honestly. It all comes down to not getting value for Hartnell at the time of the trade. Plain and simple the only people I have seen even play with the idea that it was a fair return are Flyers fans. The media smirks and makes comments about it: one example- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrQkzuScxuM

Fans of other clubs are brutally attacking about it (as expected). But if you are not a Flyers fan it is painfully obviously that the trade was ugly. I guess we will wait for December to truly make the first evaluation and then again in 3 years when RJs contract is up. I'm hoping I am wrong but it doesn't really matter, what maters is that value was not realized at the time of the trade. I have to be honest, I am holding it against Hexy.

The trouble is, nobody knows if Columbus would have used a CBO on Umberger. It's possible Hextall simply felt he's still a helpful, versatile guy who can help.

It seems clear that they wanted Hartnell gone, whether it was age, contract or discipline . They may not have had a better deal available than taking Umberger.

As it is, I share concerns about him and about him and Levavalier together. It will obviously sort itself out, but I don't like that line. I'd rather see them split up, but that's me. I just don't see them being effective enough at 5 on 5
- Jsaquella

The Lecavalier line just seems like throwing the three leftovers together and seeing what sticks. Every other line seems set. I personally never would have made the Hartnell/Umberger deal, mostly because our top line seemed set. I get the idea behind the trade but it doesn't mean it was a good idea. For the most part I likes last season's team better then this season's team. This team could go either way though. I expect a rough start.

So unless Schenn can match with Hartnell brought production-wise (which is certainly plausible), this trade will not be good short-term, but perhaps long-term.
- bradleyc4

BSchenn actually scored as much as Hartnell did at ES last season in slightly more minutes, despite not getting to play much with G and V.

BSchenn 32 ESP in 1,099:11
Hartnell 32 ESP in 1,053:06.

This year he's not on the first PP unit like Hartnell was, so 50 points would be a lot for Schenn to score.

OMG: Hartnell trade talk!

I don't care why the trade was made or how it plays out over time honestly. It all comes down to not getting value for Hartnell at the time of the trade. Plain and simple the only people I have seen even play with the idea that it was a fair return are Flyers fans. The media smirks and makes comments about it: one example- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrQkzuScxuM

Fans of other clubs are brutally attacking about it (as expected). But if you are not a Flyers fan it is painfully obviously that the trade was ugly. I guess we will wait for December to truly make the first evaluation and then again in 3 years when RJs contract is up. I'm hoping I am wrong but it doesn't really matter, what maters is that value was not realized at the time of the trade. I have to be honest, I am holding it against Hexy.
- coffee junkie

The media and fans of other teams are quite often clueless about the Flyers. They think Hartnell is still some kind of prize when he isn't.

It's 'alternate' in the NHL rulebook.

6.2 Alternate Captains – If the permanent Captain is not on the ice, Alternate Captains (not more than two) shall be accorded the privileges of the Captain. Alternate Captains shall wear the letter “A” approximately three inches (3'') in height and in contrasting color, in a conspicuous position on the front of their sweaters.

Only when the Captain is not in uniform, the Coach shall have the right to designate three Alternate Captains. This must be done prior to the start of the game.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26282
- tangent_man

ty

Meh. I think it's an either/or thing. If people actually argue about this, they need to reassess their priorities
- Giroux_Is_God

you only feel that way because you're wrong

OMG: Hartnell trade talk!

I don't care why the trade was made or how it plays out over time honestly. It all comes down to not getting value for Hartnell at the time of the trade. Plain and simple the only people I have seen even play with the idea that it was a fair return are Flyers fans. The media smirks and makes comments about it: one example- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrQkzuScxuM

Fans of other clubs are brutally attacking about it (as expected). But if you are not a Flyers fan it is painfully obviously that the trade was ugly. I guess we will wait for December to truly make the first evaluation and then again in 3 years when RJs contract is up. I'm hoping I am wrong but it doesn't really matter, what maters is that value was not realized at the time of the trade. I have to be honest, I am holding it against Hexy.
- coffee junkie

Oh jeez.

If you do it just from a player for player viewpoint, yes Columbus got the better player by a nose. (a little Umberger joke there har har)

I think other teams and markets (and some in here) seem to be VASTLY over rating Hartnell as a player in his current incarnation. He is a declining power forward with a terrible contract who couldn't produce satisfactorily playing with Claude Giroux and Jacob Voracek feeding him the puck. Umberger is also on the decline but gives you more versatility and more disciplined play.

In my mind the trade was a wash when you factor in everything.

OMG: Hartnell trade talk!

I don't care why the trade was made or how it plays out over time honestly. It all comes down to not getting value for Hartnell at the time of the trade. Plain and simple the only people I have seen even play with the idea that it was a fair return are Flyers fans. The media smirks and makes comments about it: one example- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrQkzuScxuM

Fans of other clubs are brutally attacking about it (as expected). But if you are not a Flyers fan it is painfully obviously that the trade was ugly. I guess we will wait for December to truly make the first evaluation and then again in 3 years when RJs contract is up. I'm hoping I am wrong but it doesn't really matter, what maters is that value was not realized at the time of the trade. I have to be honest, I am holding it against Hexy.
- coffee junkie

Having seen Hartnell play, I don't know how anyone could think that this was a lopsided trade in CBJ's favor. While Hartnell scored 20 goals and had 52 points last year, he played undisciplined and, at times, almost lazily. He is average defensively at best and instead of creating energy, he took it away with a bad penalty more often than not. This isn't the 37 goal Hartnell from 2011-12, who the media and outsiders seem to think he is.

The trouble is, nobody knows if Columbus would have used a CBO on Umberger. It's possible Hextall simply felt he's still a helpful, versatile guy who can help.

It seems clear that they wanted Hartnell gone, whether it was age, contract or discipline . They may not have had a better deal available than taking Umberger.

As it is, I share concerns about him and about him and Levavalier together. It will obviously sort itself out, but I don't like that line. I'd rather see them split up, but that's me. I just don't see them being effective enough at 5 on 5
- Jsaquella

how would you try to fix that line (with current pieces)

Umberger did most of his damage on the PP, as well. They didn't get any better at 5-on-5 with this trade (on paper). If anything, they got worse.
- bradleyc4

you feel this because of the lineup changes or because possession/corgi/yadayada ?

That part would be against the rules. But trading Hartnell for a draft pick. And then signing Umberger as a UFA after a buyout is completely on board. But if that's what you're referring to happening, is with Umberger, the Flyers and Columbus all conspiring before hand to make all that happen, yea, that would be an issue.
- MJL

Yes, that's the part I was referring to, a series of handshake deals behind closed doors. But like I said, similar things have been happening for years, like free agents signing at 12:00:01 on July 1st.

you only feel that way because you're wrong
- -davies-

Without going back and reading what this references, I agree.

Umberger is not likely going to play with Giroux or on the first PP.
- MJL

talking about hartnells numbers sorry meant to say 20

Only if you disregard how bad it is to take needless penalties at ES.



What can you do other than swapping Umberger with Akeson?

The first two lines are pretty well set.
- Feanor

That's exactly what I'd do, swap Akeson & Umberger

That's exactly what I'd do, swap Akeson & Umberger
- Jsaquella

...Umberger...4th line...underused...etc

memory fail on the contract.. but... I'm not sure where you get that I'm comparing apples and oranges?
- Doc_Sarcasm

Hartnells style is more grueling on the body and hes showing decline already...i think umberger can play up to his level this year and maybe surpass hartnell in years 2 and 3. best part is you dont have to worry about years 4 &5.

The media and fans of other teams are quite often clueless about the Flyers. They think Hartnell is still some kind of prize when he isn't.
- Feanor

Case in point!

I disagree, Hartnell is a good player and the majority can see his value is greater then a player considered a buyout candidate (even if it wasn't going to happen) and a 3rd. We will need to agree to disagree because I am not going to change my mind here. 3 people have already said it was a fair trade, yet oddly all three are Flyers phans. I commend Flyers fans that can be impartial and actually admit that it was bad. Makes us look less 'cluless' as you put it.