All I'm saying is that I don't believe he's getting the most out his players and I haven't seen much development with the guys he's worked with.

We'll see what happens this season when he has some talent to work with. I just don't understand how a group of players can improve, but the team never gets any better. I know this is about player development, but I've never seen a group of players improve, but the team still stinks.
- PhillySportsGuy

But you haven't provided the substance that makes you believe that. I think there are some misconceptions about Murray in play here.

Or is it a sign of the zombie apocalypse?
- BiggE

Can't it be both?

It's not like he's showing no offense though. He registered 39 points in 82 games (0.48 ppg) last year. That's not overly impressive but when you consider that he only started 42.6% of his shifts in the offensive zone and played with Rinaldo and other subpar offensive players on his wing, that's not that bad. Plus he averaged 1:29 minutes per game on the powerplay. To compare, Lecavalier started 58.2% of his shifts in the offensive zone, averaged 2:21 per game on the powerplay, played with superior linemates 5 v 5 and managed to score 37 points in 69 games (0.54 ppg).

To take it a step further, Couturier's Corsi Rel Quality of Competition at 5-on-5 was 1.562 while Lecavalier's was -0.111. So Couturier faced much tougher competition than Vinny (which is expected given his role) and managed to score at a slightly lesser clip. What happens if he gets more favorable match-ups and more offensive zone starts? Chances are, his point production will increase.
- NickTheKid87

i hope he does improve. i just don't see much creativity or that sniper touch is all. that is why i hope laughton stays in the ahl to work on his offensive game. dont want to see him pigeon holed into a defensive guy only.

chances are just as good that #14 doesnt improve as well is it not?

No it is not.






That is true, that they did have trouble scoring under Murray. But the sound defense and puck pressure game, and the habits that each player plays with. Along with being a team where every single player buys into playing the right way, was instilled under Murray.
- MJL

I don't understand how you can definitively say that. Also, you act as if offense isn't a part of the game. It's just as important as defense. You need to score to win. You can't expect to win every game 1-0 or 2-1.

It worries me. Frankly, I'd prefer a younger, more player friendly coach than a drill sergeant for the kids.
- PhillySportsGuy

Yeah, he's got a penchant for reserving prime spots for vets who play a safe game... case in point, giving top-line assignments and PP time to guys like Holmstrom/VDV over Cousins/Straka/Noebels.

Also not thrilled w/ the way he sent Akeson, the top freaking scorer on a team that can't score, to the ECHL as a lesson/message.

i hope he does improve. i just don't see much creativity or that sniper touch is all. that is why i hope laughton stays in the ahl to work on his offensive game. dont want to see him pigeon holed into a defensive guy only.

chances are just as good that #14 doesnt improve as well is it not?
- rinaldo

I think his point totals will likely increase, regardless but the likely hood of him becoming like Patrice Bergeron is probably as likely as him improving negligibly.

I don't understand how you can definitively say that. Also, you act as if offense isn't a part of the game. It's just as important as defense. You need to score to win. You can't expect to win every game 1-0 or 2-1.
- PhillySportsGuy

I can definitively say that because I watched the LA Kings evolve as a team. And from the comments from the players and the team in how Murray was a large part of dveloping that team into a Stanley Cup winner.

That "I'm acting as if offense isn't part of the game" is your misconception of what I'm stating. Nor did I state anything close to saying that offense isn't important.

But you haven't provided the substance that makes you believe that. I think there are some misconceptions about Murray in play here.
- MJL

There is no way to prove this short of the players coming out and saying he's not helping them. I'm just stating the way I feel. I don't think he's the best for their development and I'm still not sure why they let Paterson go.

good lord. i didnt say he was a bust. i guess you get confused when i say i expect more from the #8 overall pick and him being a bust
- rinaldo

Couturier's ES production as a 21 year old (1,179:01 ES TOI, 31 ESP, +1) stacks up very favorably to a bunch of big name players, most of whom faced easier competition.

Zajac, 1,265:06, 33 ESP, +3

Ennis 1,245:45, 27 ESP, -25

Backstrom 1,243:08, 34 ESP, -20

Kesler 1,241:02, 26 ESP, -15

Jordan Staal 1,235:38, 26 ESP, +2

Zubrus 1,230:36, 26 ESP, +1

B Richards 1,228:14, 32 ESP, -8

Killorn 1,206:00, 33 ESP, +8

Plekanec 1,205:43, 30 ESP, +11
Gionta 1,200:12, 32 ESP, +1

Vrbata 1,180:00 ES TOI, 30 ESP, - 6
Vermette 1,192:50, 29 ESP, Even

D Sedin 1,175:09, 29 ESP, Even

Kadri 1,159:16, 32 ESP, -11

Richards 1,029:24, 27 ESP, -6

There is no way to prove this short of the players coming out and saying he's not helping them. I'm just stating the way I feel. I don't think he's the best for their development and I'm still not sure why they let Paterson go.
- PhillySportsGuy

"It's all heresay at this point."

Please provide direct quotes from no less than 11 players currently on the roster, video evidence, notorized documents, and possible some DNA evidence to support your stance. Otherwise, all heresay.

How many years has he been in the league now? why has he been used as you say in a defensive role? Is it possible 2 coaches don’t see that offensive upside either? I don’t care about schenn as we are not talking about him.

Own my comments. Ok. if I think he will be a bust I will say as much. So in 3 years when he is only 24 I guess because he is young you can still make the age argument that he has offensive upside right?
- rinaldo

This will be his third full season. Why? Because who else was better to do it? I think the ORGANIZATION sees the offensive upside, mainly because of how he scored in juniors and that he has shown flashes of that upside so far. But anyone who understands hockey knows that defensive responsibility is a much more rare commodity in a young player, especially one who is 19, 20, 21 years old. And the coaches felt, Rightly in my opinion, that putting the kid in a role they knew he could do would help him down the road.

Do I agree it is time for him to start finding his offensive game? ABSOLFRANKINLUTELY. But saying he has no offensive upside because of what he has done so far is ridiculous.


In three years Couturier will be a 6 year veteran. And that is a different conversation. We are talking about Couturier now. I think he still has some room to grow as a player offensively. You state quite clearly that you think he doesn't.

Yeah, he's got a penchant for reserving prime spots for vets who play a safe game... case in point, giving prime top-line assignments and PP time to guys like Holmstrom/VDV over Cousins/Straka/Noebels.

Also not thrilled w/ the way he sent Akeson, the top freaking scorer on a team that can't score, to the ECHL as a lesson/message.
- Tomahawk

He has a penchant for making young players earn the top assignments and earning PP time. That's part of teaching young player.

And the AHL Coach doesn't make player personell decisions of where to send players. I'm sure he has some input. But situations like sending Akeson to the ECHL is an orginizational decision. And you know what,how Akeson plays away from the puck, is going to be a big factor in how good of an NHL player he is going to be.

Yeah, he's got a penchant for reserving prime spots for vets who play a safe game... case in point, giving prime top-line assignments and PP time to guys like Holmstrom/VDV over Cousins/Straka/Noebels.

Also not thrilled w/ the way he sent Akeson, the top freaking scorer on a team that can't score, to the ECHL as a lesson/message.
- Tomahawk

I know. He's out to send messages to these players. I just don't get it. It's like he's trying to make offensive players into defensive players. IMO, I feel like he's subtracting to add instead of keeping the offense while attempting to add the defense.

Never once have a stroked my man meat back and forth to orgasm while thinking of Sean Couturier. You have me confused with Linda Ronstadt.
- jmatchett383

I thought that was what all of us did!

There is no way to prove this short of the players coming out and saying he's not helping them. I'm just stating the way I feel. I don't think he's the best for their development and I'm still not sure why they let Paterson go.
- PhillySportsGuy

So it's just a random feel, and not based on any real evidence?

I thought that was what all of us did!
- GOA88

Well, I sometimes get close, but I need to switch to Jody Shelley at the finish.

There is no way to prove this short of the players coming out and saying he's not helping them. I'm just stating the way I feel. I don't think he's the best for their development and I'm still not sure why they let Paterson go.
- PhillySportsGuy

Yet another misuse of personal feelings.

I don't understand how you can definitively say that. Also, you act as if offense isn't a part of the game. It's just as important as defense. You need to score to win. You can't expect to win every game 1-0 or 2-1.
- PhillySportsGuy

Its well known that many Kings players and executives across the league gave Terry Murray much of the credit for the Kings being such a solid defensive team then and now.

First I've read about it.
- Feanor

I'm definitely happy to hear it. Need a full lineup to compete with Boston on the road.

So it's just a random feel, and not based on any real evidence?
- MJL

Yes. Not everything has to be steeped in encyclopedias of fact. Some people have what they call a "gut feeling" and like to trust it from time to time, even when it contradicts with facts and past events. You sometimes seem to act as if this is pure foolishness.

So it's just a random feel, and not based on any real evidence?
- MJL

It's based on results. Which players have gotten better under Murray? How has the team done under Murray? Has the team improved at all since Murray took over?

Yet another misuse of personal feelings.
- Tomahawk

You Really Turn Me On
You Knock Me Off Of My Feet
My Lonely Days Are Gone

This will be his third full season. Why? Because who else was better to do it? I think the ORGANIZATION sees the offensive upside, mainly because of how he scored in juniors and that he has shown flashes of that upside so far. But anyone who understands hockey knows that defensive responsibility is a much more rare commodity in a young player, especially one who is 19, 20, 21 years old. And the coaches felt, Rightly in my opinion, that putting the kid in a role they knew he could do would help him down the road.

Do I agree it is time for him to start finding his offensive game? ABSOLFRANKINLUTELY. But saying he has no offensive upside because of what he has done so far is ridiculous.


In three years Couturier will be a 6 year veteran. And that is a different conversation. We are talking about Couturier now. I think he still has some room to grow as a player offensively. You state quite clearly that you think he doesn't.
- MBFlyerfan

Exactly, he has already shown signs of what he can do when he has chances. He'll be fine.

Ryan Johansen signed a 3 yr deal. So that saga has ended.

Its well known that many Kings players and executives across the league gave Terry Murray much of the credit for the Kings being such a solid defensive team then and now.
- MBFlyerfan

Please provide direct quotes from players AFTER Murray was fired.