They did lose patience with him. But he's overrated as a player by many.
- MJL

Im not a JVR fan..... Overrated. God I wish we could've drafted Kane instead......

Bingo.
- Jsaquella

They did lose patience with him. But he's overrated as a player by many.
- MJL

Yeah, but how good would he look on the 1st line right now?

JVR - G - Voracek
Schenn - Vinnie - Akeson/Raffl
Read - Couts - Simmonds
Rinaldo - Bellemare - Raffl/Jones

Grossmann - Coburn
Streit - A Mac
Morin - MDZ

It's about the player though. Saying they're better than these defenseman just shows how bad our current defense is. It doesn't mean these guys are ready to play 82 games in the NHL.
- PhillySportsGuy

JVR is a good example of a forward that they weren't patient with. Yeah, he stayed in college a little longer than they wanted. But as many have said, a young player's progress is not always linear. And they gave up on JVR way too soon.

Hope they learned their lesson for when these kids struggle. And they will.
- TheGreat28

I was a bit of a preacher in here for a bit. I am a huge JVR fan.. I love big fast wingers. I was a Carter fan as well. The problem people (and the org) had with JVR was that he was a second overall pick. Those guys are supposed to be immediate studs (or so people WANT to believe).

The kid never had a chance here from the day he was drafted as the "Next John LeClair". Its just a shame they traded him for the last type of d-man we needed. A big slow, defensive d-man.

Stupid, stupid trade.

It's about the player though. Saying they're better than these defenseman just shows how bad our current defense is. It doesn't mean these guys are ready to play 82 games in the NHL.
- PhillySportsGuy

I don't think it shows how bad our defense is. It's that some fans think the defense is bad, and they see the hot young rookies in bright lights that have come to save the day!

The problem isn't orange-colored glasses. The problem is that some of the veterans haven't played well enough to get Morin sent packing
- AllInForFlyers

If Morin and Ghost were 27 years old, would you be talking about how great they were or would you say they're just another couple of guys on an otherwise weak defense?

Im not a JVR fan..... Overrated. God I wish we could've drafted Kane instead......
- GOA88

If you thought the "Dry Island" thing with Richards and Carter was bad, imagine the drama with Patrick Kane...

I was a bit of a preacher in here for a bit. I am a huge JVR fan.. I love big fast wingers. I was a Carter fan as well. The problem people (and the org) had with JVR was that he was a second overall pick. Those guys are supposed to be immediate studs (or so people WANT to believe).

The kid never had a chance here from the day he was drafted as the "Next John LeClair". Its just a shame they traded him for the last type of d-man we needed. A big slow, defensive d-man.

Stupid, stupid trade.
- jak521

Just lost all credibility

They did lose patience with him. But he's overrated as a player by many.
- MJL

Overrated in what regard? He is an offensive minded, big winger with speed and a knack for scoring. Not every winger can be a two way god like Marian Hossa. He would immediately be on our first line. No questions asked.

Yes. That poop is fine during the preseason, but when Morin turns a puck over and it leads to a Crosby GW goal, people are going to be complaining about why these guys are in the lineup when they aren't ready yet.
- PhillySportsGuy

Of course they will. That's the fickle nature of the fan base. It's like sometimes you almost want to see it happen, to show how flawed that opinion is. Like when Lauridsen got his cup of coffee, and he was as good as Grossmann or Coburn.

Just lost all credibility
- GOA88

I guess you didnt watch the playoffs last year, huh?

If you thought the "Dry Island" thing with Richards and Carter was bad, imagine the drama with Patrick Kane...
- NickTheKid87

All I see is he is winning cups and dangling everyone out of their skates.

TRADE GIROUX FOR A DRAFT PICK!

Easiest way to do it is to LTIR Pronger & White before season, waive Schultz & assign him to Phantoms, keep Morin. Gives them about $10k of cap room. Season starts, LTIR Kimmo and you have the ability to recall Schultz and get maximum LTIR exemption for Pronger. Of course you might face issues when White returns or if Timonen comes back, but that's a bridge to cross later
- Jsaquella

Why not LTIR all three of the italicized players, and exceed $69 million by as close as possible to the injured players AAV of $7,516,429 with some paper recalls/demotions (bolded)?

FORWARDS
Brayden Schenn ($2.500m) / Claude Giroux ($8.275m) / Jakub Voracek ($4.250m)
Michael Raffl ($1.100m) / Vincent Lecavalier ($4.500m) / R.J. Umberger ($4.600m)
Matt Read ($3.625m) / Sean Couturier ($1.750m) / Wayne Simmonds ($3.975m)
Jay Rosehill ($0.675m) / Zac Rinaldo ($0.750m) / Jason Akeson ($0.575m)
Ryan White ($0.575m) / Petr Straka ($0.925m)
DEFENSEMEN
Andrew MacDonald ($5.000m) / Braydon Coburn ($4.500m)
Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m) / Mark Streit ($5.250m)
Michael Del Zotto ($1.300m) / Luke Schenn ($3.600m)
Samuel Morin ($0.894m) / Robert Hagg ($0.925m)
Chris Pronger ($4.941m) / Kimmo Timonen ($2.000m)
GOALTENDERS
Steve Mason ($4.100m)
Ray Emery ($1.000m)
BURIED
Nick Schultz ($0.325m)
BONUS OVERAGE
$345,000
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $69,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $75,755,595; BONUSES: $2,000,000
CAP SPACE (26-man roster): -$6,755,595

After Tuesday's 5pm deadline, Hagg and Straka are demoted to create $1.85 million in cap space. Then they can recall PEB and Jones and still have $625K in cap space.

Overrated in what regard? He is an offensive minded, big winger with speed and a knack for scoring. Not every winger can be a two way god like Marian Hossa. He would immediately be on our first line. No questions asked.
- jak521

Overrated in that he's not as good of a player as some thinks he is. I agree he would play on the first line of the Flyers. He's a solid goal scorer, and a good winger.

It's about the player though. Saying they're better than these defenseman just shows how bad our current defense is. It doesn't mean these guys are ready to play 82 games in the NHL.
- PhillySportsGuy

I made this argument when Scott Laughton wasn't outplaying anyone, was just kind of in the mix with guys. That's when you send a guy back.

But what is Morin supposed to do? Not play well because some of the veterans have limitations? If he outplayed both guys on the third pair, and probably one guy in the Top 4, what else is he supposed to do? He can't get older overnight, and the mistakes he is going to make are going to happen no matter when he comes.

How many guys does he have to beat out before he makes a team?

I guess you didnt watch the playoffs last year, huh?
- jak521

He scored goals for the Flyers too. So what?

I don't think it shows how bad our defense is. It's that some fans think the defense is bad, and they see the hot young rookies in bright lights that have come to save the day!
- MJL

I think people also need to realize the vets are just getting their skating legs and trying not to get hurt. The rookies are going all out and looking to impress. There is a different level of play once the regular season begins.

The team should err on the side of caution and just hope the vets get things together to start the season.

A guy like Morin isn't going to save the season if Coburn ends up having a bad year. The season is cooked if that happens.

All I see is he is winning cups and dangling everyone out of their skates.
- GOA88

The dangling is all him but the Cups are him, Toews, Keith, Seabrook, etc, etc, etc

I was a bit of a preacher in here for a bit. I am a huge JVR fan.. I love big fast wingers. I was a Carter fan as well. The problem people (and the org) had with JVR was that he was a second overall pick. Those guys are supposed to be immediate studs (or so people WANT to believe).

The kid never had a chance here from the day he was drafted as the "Next John LeClair". Its just a shame they traded him for the last type of d-man we needed. A big slow, defensive d-man.

Stupid, stupid trade.
- jak521

My take on the trade at the time was that it was a short-term plug to the D because of other poor personnel decisions. I understood why they did it, but I thought long-term the club would regret it.

My argument was simple - JVR had a much higher ceiling than Schenn. A 1st line winger, potential all-star, trumps a physical, stay at home defenseman. Some argued that Schenn, as a former 5th overall pick, had as high an upside.

Doesn't seem to be the case.

TRADE GIROUX FOR A DRAFT PICK!
- jmatchett383

MCDAVID IS SIMON GAMACHE AND EICHEL IS ROBBIE EARL!

( )

The dangling is all him but the Cups are him, Toews, Keith, Seabrook, etc, etc, etc
- NickTheKid87

I get it. You just cant deny he is a great player. Leaps and bounds better than JVR

Bobby Ryab signs 7 yr 7.25 aav with Senators

edit: and I'm leight

Why not LTIR all three of the italicized players, and exceed $69 million by as close as possible to the injured players AAV of $7,516,429 with some paper recalls/demotions (bolded)?

FORWARDS
Brayden Schenn ($2.500m) / Claude Giroux ($8.275m) / Jakub Voracek ($4.250m)
Michael Raffl ($1.100m) / Vincent Lecavalier ($4.500m) / R.J. Umberger ($4.600m)
Matt Read ($3.625m) / Sean Couturier ($1.750m) / Wayne Simmonds ($3.975m)
Jay Rosehill ($0.675m) / Zac Rinaldo ($0.750m) / Jason Akeson ($0.575m)
Ryan White ($0.575m) / Petr Straka ($0.925m)
DEFENSEMEN
Andrew MacDonald ($5.000m) / Braydon Coburn ($4.500m)
Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m) / Mark Streit ($5.250m)
Michael Del Zotto ($1.300m) / Luke Schenn ($3.600m)
Samuel Morin ($0.894m) / Robert Hagg ($0.925m)
Chris Pronger ($4.941m) / Kimmo Timonen ($2.000m)
GOALTENDERS
Steve Mason ($4.100m)
Ray Emery ($1.000m)
BURIED
Nick Schultz ($0.325m)
BONUS OVERAGE
$345,000
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $69,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $75,755,595; BONUSES: $2,000,000
CAP SPACE (26-man roster): -$6,755,595

After Tuesday's 5pm deadline, Hagg and Straka are demoted to create $1.85 million in cap space. Then they can recall PEB and Jones and still have $625K in cap space.
- Feanor

This falls short by about 750K of maximizing the LTIR cap space.