We all know that really, the current defense is a collection of really good 4-6 dman at best.

Personally, I still don't think Morin ever develops close to Pronger's offensive game. I think the best case is that he brings Chara or Pronger's defense and some nastiness, can move the puck quickly and maybe brings a heavy shot from the point.

I think the ideal scenario is that Morin/Ghost thoroughly complement each other's game and the sum is even greater than the parts.

Sanheim seems to be the one guy that could be that guy who is stellar in both ends of the ice.
- TheGreat28

I think that Streit, Coburn, and MacDonald are all legitimate top 4 NHL defenseman. Grossmann and Schenn are 4-5 defenseman. Have to see what we get from Del Zotto.

I don't disagree with that line of thinking. Although I assume by compete, you mean legitimately competing for the Cup, or at least to be considered a true contender. But I still wouldn't trade Giroux.
- MJL

Yes, I meant going into the season with Vegas giving us the best odds to win it. Not the "once we get in anything can happen" approach that we all have today.

No, I'm saying would you rather have 2-3 years of G playing at that level from 30-33 when the core group of D prospects mature, or McDavid hitting his prime at 21-22?

Because I do think G at 33 might trail off a bit. He's not the biggest guy in the world, and has already had some concussion issues.
- TheGreat28

Giroux being 30-33 is 4-7 years from now and at that point, many of our current top defensive prospects will have already matured a great deal (with the exception of Sanheim). If they aren't impact defensemen at that point, there is a good chance they won't be.

12/13 NY Islanders
- jmatchett383

Take away his time on the pp, was he their leader among dmen in ice time?
Answer: w/o pp time, he was 4th

Giroux being 30-33 is 4-7 years from now and at that point, many of our current top defensive prospects will have already matured a great deal (with the exception of Sanheim). If they aren't impact defensemen at that point, there is a good chance they won't be.
- mcefalu

How is Sanheim not going to mature greatly in 4-7 years? He's a year younger than Morin

A good GM would win the stanley cup
- mcefalu

A good GM would have went down this draft & develop path much sooner than the Flyers have

The problem is, you could probably say that about any of the Flyers defensemen.
- Jsaquella

Maybe, though I think they are a bubble team right now with Coburn as the top guy

I think that Streit, Coburn, and MacDonald are all legitimate top 4 NHL defenseman. Grossmann and Schenn are 4-5 defenseman. Have to see what we get from Del Zotto.
- MJL

I don't completely agree. I think any ONE of them would be a great 4 or a decent 3. Having 2 in your top 4 probably means you're not really ready for prime time, unless your 1-2 is Weber-Suter or Pronger-Niedemeyer.

Having all 3 in your top 4, especially without a true #1, means your probably a borderline playoff team.

How is Sanheim not going to mature greatly in 4-7 years? He's a year younger than Morin
- Jsaquella

Sorry, he will definitely be more mature. But isn't it possible Sanheim could be in the AHL still at that point? I suppose Morin could as well. I'm just saying 4-7 years is a long time.

EDIT: Also Morin is technically two years ahead of Sanheim in his development from a Juniors standpoint, isn't he? I suppose that won't make a difference depending on how quickly Sanheim comes along

A good GM would have went down this draft & develop path much sooner than the Flyers have
- ob18

Yes, these are all traits of a good GM

The 2012-13 Islanders might disagree.
- SuperSchennBros

Streit was barely used by that team on the pk and was 4th on that team among dmen in non pp ice time. That is not a #1 dman

If Mark Streit is your #1 dman, your team is in the lottery and picking in the top 10
- BiggE

Nah, NJ devils went to the Cup finals in 2012! Who was their #1 defenseman? Bryce Salvador? Mared Zidlicky?

Nah, NJ devils went to the Cup finals in 2012! Who was their #1 defenseman? Bryce Salvador? Mared Zidlicky?
- MJL

Salvador, at that time, was a better all around dman than Streit is today.

Ok, I'm now done with this. I have way better things to do than spend all night arguing if Mark Streit can be a playoff teams top dman

I don't completely agree. I think any ONE of them would be a great 4 or a decent 3. Having 2 in your top 4 probably means you're not really ready for prime time, unless your 1-2 is Weber-Suter or Pronger-Niedemeyer.

Having all 3 in your top 4, especially without a true #1, means your probably a borderline playoff team.
- TheGreat28

You're making a different argument. Your looking at them collectively as a group. Not having that true #1 defenseman, doesn't change what the Flyers defenseman are as players individually.

In the same way that if the Flyers try and use MacDonald as a #1 defenseman, that doesn't make him a #1.

Maybe, though I think they are a bubble team right now with Coburn as the top guy
- BiggE

I think Coburn is the only thing they have that is even remotely a top pair guy. He's best suited as a number 3, unless you have a stud number one to play him with.

I'd say Streit is a good offensive 3-4. The rest, IMO are all 4-5's. MacDonald being a bit ahead of Grossmann & Schenn, but I still don't think he can really anchor a good 2nd pair. Del Zotto's a wildcard. If he returns to his form under Tortorella, he's a good 2nd pair offensive guy like Streit. If he does what he did last season, then Shayne Gostisbehere will be playing in his spot.

Salvador, at that time, was a better all around dman than Streit is today.

Ok, I'm now done with this. I have way better things to do than spend all night arguing if Mark Streit can be a playoff teams top dman
- BiggE

Still not a #1! And I think you're selling Streit a little short as a player.

And the point really is not having a #1, doesn't doom a team to lottery status.

I think that Streit, Coburn, and MacDonald are all legitimate top 4 NHL defenseman. Grossmann and Schenn are 4-5 defenseman. Have to see what we get from Del Zotto.
- MJL

They all have their flaws, but for the most part I agree.

Giroux being 30-33 is 4-7 years from now and at that point, many of our current top defensive prospects will have already matured a great deal (with the exception of Sanheim). If they aren't impact defensemen at that point, there is a good chance they won't be.
- mcefalu

Let me clarify. Let's say Ghost makes it next year, and maybe even Morin. Morin could be 2 years away. Doesn't change the timeline really. Let's say Hagg and then Sanheim make it, so in 3 years all four are in the NHL. They will have their ups and downs. So realistically, they all really hit their stride in their 3rd year in the league.

In 2018 or 2019, you have the best defense in the league. Mason and Stolarz are a great tandem. What about the forwards? Let's say Hextall drafts a couple of blue-chip prospects, and luckily forwards get to the NHL faster.

With your superstar in his early 30's at that point, you have a window of 2-3 years to win a cup. Hopefully they win it in this window, because this is what realistically is going to happen.

But IF McDavid is as advertised, he gives you a much longer window.

A good GM would have went down this draft & develop path much sooner than the Flyers have
- ob18

Sorry, he will definitely be more mature. But isn't it possible Sanheim could be in the AHL still at that point? I suppose Morin could as well. I'm just saying 4-7 years is a long time.

EDIT: Also Morin is technically two years ahead of Sanheim in his development from a Juniors standpoint, isn't he? I suppose that won't make a difference depending on how quickly Sanheim comes along
- mcefalu

I think Sanheim is less raw than Morin. He;s a really smart kid and he's got a really great demeanor on the ice. He doesn;t get rattled and his skating is good enough to recover from most mistakes.

I think Sanheim, while a couple years away, is their best all around D prospect.

A good GM would win the stanley cup
- mcefalu

sign bobby ryan win stanley cup

Let me clarify. Let's say Ghost makes it next year, and maybe even Morin. Morin could be 2 years away. Doesn't change the timeline really. Let's say Hagg and then Sanheim make it, so in 3 years all four are in the NHL. They will have their ups and downs. So realistically, they all really hit their stride in their 3rd year in the league.

In 2018 or 2019, you have the best defense in the league. Mason and Stolarz are a great tandem. What about the forwards? Let's say Hextall drafts a couple of blue-chip prospects, and luckily forwards get to the NHL faster.

With your superstar in his early 30's at that point, you have a window of 2-3 years to win a cup. Hopefully they win it in this window, because this is what realistically is going to happen.

But IF McDavid is as advertised, he gives you a much longer window.
- TheGreat28

They could also draft another player that turns into a top player. What number was Giroux drafted at?

Giroux being 30-33 is 4-7 years from now and at that point, many of our current top defensive prospects will have already matured a great deal (with the exception of Sanheim). If they aren't impact defensemen at that point, there is a good chance they won't be.
- mcefalu

what's wrong with giroux being 30-33?

A good GM would have went down this draft & develop path much sooner than the Flyers have
- ob18

how's drafting and developing working for edmonton and florida

Still not a #1! And I think you're selling Streit a little short as a player.

And the point really is not having a #1, doesn't doom a team to lottery status.
- MJL

Thats not what I said (sigh) all I said was that if Mark Streit is your top guy on D you are likely to be a lottery team. Since Coburn is clearly the Flyers top guy when it comes to all around D, it doesn't apply to them anyway.