Easy answer to that... Rinaldo is being asked to play on the edge and be a pest. The coaching staff is willing / expects to take the occasional penalty, if Rinaldo can take some one like off their game or wear them out.

Everyone wants 4 scoring lines. The Flyers coaching staff obviously sees need for a energy fourth line to pester and wear out the opposition. Rinaldo fits this role. Most of the prospects track to be line 3 or better And, why bring a young winger up to play limited minutes in a limited role (and a role they are not destine to play). When they could be playing more minute and gain more experience in the AHL. We shouldn't be developing guys at the farm level for the 4th line... Frankly they are easy to pick up via UFA or trade.
- leon neon

Why limit the "fourth" line to a limited role, with limited players? Why load up on guys who do little more than "bring energy"? Energy is great, but you also need guys that can play. Look at LA or Chicago. They play their "fourth" line regularly, and have good players on those lines, because they're not hung up on energy guys.

If Rinaldo took the occasional penalty, it wouldn't be an issue. He takes a lot more than occasional penalties, based on how many minutes he plays.

If Rinaldo was any more on the edge he'd be Bono.

I don't think anyone wants "4 scoring lines." They want 4 effective lines that can play a regular shift without taking a penalty or otherwise being a liability. The 09/10 line that had Lappy/Betts wasn't a scoring line, but it was a line that could play upwards of 14 minutes/night and you didn't have to wring your hands hoping they wouldn't implode.

The problem isn't that he sometimes takes penalties so much as the kinds he does take, not to mention the fact that there is very little else to his game (to date). Again using Lappy and Betts, or even Powe, they were players who were good PKers, could get the puck into the offensive zone and grind/cycle a bit, played good responsible D, and rarely took a stupid or needless penalty. If you get a rough for being overaggressive, or have a fight, or take a penalty to save a goal, that's one thing. But when you don't offer much else besides "energy" (again, to date) and your penalty ratio is negative, not to mention many of them are needless, they there's diminishing returns every time he's on the ice.
- jmatchett383

I think a Lappy-type player would be the ideal 4th line player. He can grind, play defense, hit, fight and even chip in some offense here and there. If Rinaldo could turn into a similar player, that would be awesome but he needs to be much more disciplined. He can't be running around out there like a mad dog.

If Rinaldo was any more on the edge he'd be Bono.
- hereticpride

Why limit the "fourth" line to a limited role, with limited players? Why load up on guys who do little more than "bring energy"? Energy is great, but you also need guys that can play. Look at LA or Chicago. They play their "fourth" line regularly, and have good players on those lines, because they're not hung up on energy guys.

If Rinaldo took the occasional penalty, it wouldn't be an issue. He takes a lot more than occasional penalties, based on how many minutes he plays.
- Jsaquella

They're trying to mold him into a Derek Dorsett... don't think it's gonna work, though.

So, to be honest, I generally like Katy Perry. She's got some catchy tunes, and she doesn't seem to take herself too seriously, which is awesome. And she's not too hard on the yes.

But, she's got this song, "This Is How We Do" where she gives "shout outs" towards the end. And one of the is, "This one goes out to all you kids buying bottle service with your rent money. Reeeeeeeeespect!" followed by a picture of Arethra Franlkin.

I understand it's about being a spoiled immature irresponsible kid, but really? Knowing who listens to your music, you're going to tell them that being homeless is okay as long as you get alcohol? Isn't that what homeless people are condemned for? This is me being on my old man soap box, but I just wish these pop artists would take a little bit more responsibility for their lyrics knowing how influential they are.

They're trying to mold him into a Derek Dorsett... don't think it's gonna work, though.
- Tomahawk

I don't think the need him diving and pulling the Letang head snap 80 times a game.

I realize that this is preseason, but it sounds like the team's play was not inspiring to say the least. I looked at the box score at the end of the second period, and the shots for, and against really alarmed me. I hope that the players really want to play in the NHL. Isn't that part of the reason why we got rid of Richards, and Carter; lack of consistency, and off ice issues? I know that many that played the other night were still kids, but their work ethic is what I am questioning. I also understand that the kids have been playing a lot lately, but I hope that they can make the adjustment of a longer schedule. I am not ready to throw in the towel, but when a player accepts a losing environment, it's a hard habit to shake. I also have faith in Chief, to let them know that this is not acceptable. I appreciate hard play, when you lose. These things happen. But, if you are going to take nights off, because of a bad mood, or you are just not focused enough to play....
I am also starting to wonder if this is going to be a habit of the next generation of players. It seems like the players are catered to now more than ever. It's sad when social media is more important than doing your job, and earning those millions of dollars.
Food for thought. It's just one bad loss, but as mentioned a hard fought loss would leave a better feeling about the team for the fans.
Thanks.
- OrangeAndBlack1

As a fan, I don't place a lot of value in a pre season game. The previous pre season game against the Devils, the Flyers destroyed them and completely dominated the game.

I think a Lappy-type player would be the ideal 4th line player. He can grind, play defense, hit, fight and even chip in some offense here and there. If Rinaldo could turn into a similar player, that would be awesome but he needs to be much more disciplined. He can't be running around out there like a mad dog.
- NickTheKid87

Agreed. I think the Flyers want him to be a Lappy type guy. The trouble is, Lappy had really good hockey sense and decent skill. In juniors, Lappy had a 140 point season. Rinaldo couldn't score 140 points in three OHL seasons.

He's go Lappy's hitting ability and energy, and he's a better skater than Lappy was. But he hasn't shown Lappy's smarts or hockey sense, or ability to pick his spots and play good, disciplined positional defense.

They're trying to mold him into a Derek Dorsett... don't think it's gonna work, though.
- Tomahawk

I'd settle for 2009-10 Carcillo, but I don;t think he has the skill

I don't think the need him diving and pulling the Letang head snap 80 times a game.
- jmatchett383

So, to be honest, I generally like Katy Perry. She's got some catchy tunes, and she doesn't seem to take herself too seriously, which is awesome. And she's not too hard on the yes.

But, she's got this song, "This Is How We Do" where she gives "shout outs" towards the end. And one of the is, "This one goes out to all you kids buying bottle service with your rent money. Reeeeeeeeespect!" followed by a picture of Arethra Franlkin.

I understand it's about being a spoiled immature irresponsible kid, but really? Knowing who listens to your music, you're going to tell them that being homeless is okay as long as you get alcohol? Isn't that what homeless people are condemned for? This is me being on my old man soap box, but I just wish these pop artists would take a little bit more responsibility for their lyrics knowing how influential they are.
- jmatchett383

Related: yesterday, my girlfriend's brother said he was going to buy a PS4 with his student loans and we both immediately jumped down his throat.

But I can't blame Katy Perry if people are dumb enough to use rent money to buy booze. If someone hears the song and thinks "good idea, Katy!" they're already effed.

I'd settle for 2009-10 Carcillo, but I don;t think he has the skill
- Jsaquella

- johndewar

I'd love to see the NHL review plays like that and fine guys publicly, like they do with suspension videos. Get Denis Leary or Gilbert Gottfried to do the explanation.

Agreed. I think the Flyers want him to be a Lappy type guy. The trouble is, Lappy had really good hockey sense and decent skill. In juniors, Lappy had a 140 point season. Rinaldo couldn't score 140 points in three OHL seasons.

He's go Lappy's hitting ability and energy, and he's a better skater than Lappy was. But he hasn't shown Lappy's smarts or hockey sense, or ability to pick his spots and play good, disciplined positional defense.
- Jsaquella

The the offense may never come but the discipline can. The problem is, it's up to Rinaldo to be a better player. The coaching staff can only do so much. At some point, Rinaldo will have to want to be that type of player and not a mad dog looking to sink his teeth into the first thing that moves. Not to say he's not already trying to become that kind of effective energy line player, but I can't say there's much evidence other than 40 odd games in a lockout shortened season.

- Tomahawk

OK, I'd ecstatically endorse 2010 Carcillo.

The the offense may never come but the discipline can. The problem is, it's up to Rinaldo to be a better player. The coaching staff can only do so much. At some point, Rinaldo will have to want to be that type of player and not a mad dog looking to sink his teeth into the first thing that moves. Not to say he's not already trying to become that kind of effective energy line player, but I can't say there's much evidence other than 40 odd games in a lockout shortened season.
- NickTheKid87

I get that, and I'm not saying the Flyers shouldn't try to get everything they can out of Rinaldo. They should try to develop him and try to get him to the point where he can be considered for a PK role or even a third line role, so long as he shows progress in his development.

The trouble is, Rinaldo has been in the NHL for three years. There really hasn't been much progress. In terms of his play, he's still an undisciplined mess, running around, more worried about a hit than a smart play. He's still not a good positional defender. The offense may never come, but it's not there, just the same.

The year he "improved" the biggest change was he drew more penalties than he did in the other two seasons he played. To me, they should focus on getting better play from him in his energy line role before considering giving him more responsibility.

Why limit the "fourth" line to a limited role, with limited players? Why load up on guys who do little more than "bring energy"? Energy is great, but you also need guys that can play. Look at LA or Chicago. They play their "fourth" line regularly, and have good players on those lines, because they're not hung up on energy guys.

If Rinaldo took the occasional penalty, it wouldn't be an issue. He takes a lot more than occasional penalties, based on how many minutes he plays.
- Jsaquella

It's not me limiting the 4th line. I'm just rationalizing and trying to figure out the Flyers management. Their are many roles in hockey; playmakers, sniper, goon, defensive winger, etc... If you are strictly talking about the role of an "energy/pest" type - Rinaldo is much better than most in the league and much better then most on the team.

As for other characteristics... Other are better and others have a better total package. However, these players are probably more expensive and playing higher lines. My guess from what is being said about Rinaldo - is that the coaching staff hopes he develops more of these other qualities. He is only 24.

I don't look at scoring for a 4th liner (again, it's nice, but not their role). I look at hits verse PIM. Rinaldo's first year he had 175 hits and 232 PIM. Last year - similar games - he reversed that to 231 hits and 153 PIM. This is improvement...

And, why waist a spot for a talented guy (like LA or CHI) who can play regular line, if they are only going to see the ice 7.8% of the season.

Who played line 4 for LA and CHI?

So, how's married life been?
- jmatchett383

Pretty much the same as it was before married life. We already lived together and everything.

It's not me limiting the 4th line. I'm just rationalizing and trying to figure out the Flyers management. Their are many roles in hockey; playmakers, sniper, goon, defensive winger, etc... If you are strictly talking about the role of an "energy/pest" type - Rinaldo is much better than most in the league and much better then most on the team.

As for other characteristics... Other are better and others have a better total package. However, these players are probably more expensive and playing higher lines. My guess from what is being said about Rinalod - is that the coaching staff hopes he develops more of these other qualities. He is only 24.

I don't look at scoring for a 4th liner (again, it's nice, but not their role). I look at hits verse PIM. Rinaldo's first year he had 175 hits and 232 PIM. Last year - similar games - he reversed that to 231 hits and 153 PIM. This is improvement...

And, why waist a spot for a talented guy (like LA or CHI) who can play regular line, if they are only going to see the ice 7.8% of the season.

Who played line 4 for LA and CHI?
- leon neon

I understand the Flyers' energy line philosophy, I just disagree with it.

LA and Chicago have won 4 of the last 5 Stanley Cups, I'd say that they're doing a good job, because they use their fourth lines for more than energy.

The Blackhawks used several depth guys, but they used them a lot more regularly than the Flyers were able to use their fourth line. They had guys like Marcus Kruger, Ben Smith and Brian Bollig on their fourth line and they all averaged more than 10 minutes per game.

The Kings used guys like Jordan Nolan, Dwight King and Kyle Clifford. They all played more regularly than the Flyers fourth line, all averaging more than 9 minutes per game of ice time.

More importantly those teams' 4th lines averaged between 9-12 minutes of ES TOI per game.

For the Flyers, the only regular 4th liner that averaged over 9 minutes was Hall. At ES, the Flyers 4th liners averaged between 4:53 per game (Rosehill) and 7:11 per game (Rinaldo).

What that means is, the Blackhawks and Kings could send their fourth lines out there regularly, lessening the burden on the top lines and keeping them more fresh and available for prime scoring situations. An effective fourth line allows a team to better utilize their top scoring line players.

I get that, and I'm not saying the Flyers shouldn't try to get everything they can out of Rinaldo. They should try to develop him and try to get him to the point where he can be considered for a PK role or even a third line role, so long as he shows progress in his development.

The trouble is, Rinaldo has been in the NHL for three years. There really hasn't been much progress. In terms of his play, he's still an undisciplined mess, running around, more worried about a hit than a smart play. He's still not a good positional defender. The offense may never come, but it's not there, just the same.

The year he "improved" the biggest change was he drew more penalties than he did in the other two seasons he played. To me, they should focus on getting better play from him in his energy line role before considering giving him more responsibility.
- Jsaquella

I agree, Rinaldo has been pretty much stagnant in his development. Aside from the Winter/Spring of 2013, he's pretty much just been a one-dimensional player. I also don't understand why the Flyers seemingly give him chance after chance but the likes of McGinn and Akeson have played a total of 38 NHL games.

So, to be honest, I generally like Katy Perry. She's got some catchy tunes, and she doesn't seem to take herself too seriously, which is awesome. And she's not too hard on the yes.

But, she's got this song, "This Is How We Do" where she gives "shout outs" towards the end. And one of the is, "This one goes out to all you kids buying bottle service with your rent money. Reeeeeeeeespect!" followed by a picture of Arethra Franlkin.

I understand it's about being a spoiled immature irresponsible kid, but really? Knowing who listens to your music, you're going to tell them that being homeless is okay as long as you get alcohol? Isn't that what homeless people are condemned for? This is me being on my old man soap box, but I just wish these pop artists would take a little bit more responsibility for their lyrics knowing how influential they are.
- jmatchett383

For the most part, I could care less about artists having stupid lyrics like that because people who take advice from pop songs generally get what they pay for. I was more upset with her dark horse song because of its rampant misuse of allusion and metaphors.

Related: yesterday, my girlfriend's brother said he was going to buy a PS4 with his student loans and we both immediately jumped down his throat.

But I can't blame Katy Perry if people are dumb enough to use rent money to buy booze. If someone hears the song and thinks "good idea, Katy!" they're already effed.
- NickTheKid87

Yeah, a friend of mine in college tried to talk his..."irregular" friend out of taking out a $15K student loan to buy clothes and A&F/Hollister. Didn't work, and idiotic people are gonna do idiotic things. I know that parenting should be the #1 preventetive measure, but they can only go so far. I just think that when people are in a position of influence on children, they should take some responsibility for what they endorse.

For instance, after the first copy-cat Columbine killers struck, the media blasted Linkin Park and Disturbed (both of whom I hate, musically) for their destructive lyrics and blamed them for turning these lunatics into killers. Now, not to draw a direct comparison between the two, but I don't see the media really really digging hard against pop stars who are just as influential, if not more so, on young girls.

I agree, Rinaldo has been pretty much stagnant in his development. Aside from the Winter/Spring of 2013, he's pretty much just been a one-dimensional player. I also don't understand why the Flyers seemingly give him chance after chance but the likes of McGinn and Akeson have played a total of 38 NHL games.
- NickTheKid87

That's my point exactly. Akeson played one game in 2013, looked solid and scored a goal. he didn't get another sniff until the end of the next season and played very solidly again. Gustafsson got chances, but if he had a bad game or made a mistake, he was sitting out the next night. In the case of Rinaldo, he put the team shorthanded for 7 minutes less than two minutes into the first, yet dressed the next night and played 10 minutes.

I get that Akeson isn't a prototypical 4th liner, but there were times where Berube shifted Rinaldo up to Couturier's line...why not try Akeson there? A guy who has produced in the AHL and shown legitimate progress after being sent to the ECHL, rather than a guy who has had NHL opportunity for 3 years and shown little improvement as a player.

For the most part, I could care less about artists having stupid lyrics like that because people who take advice from pop songs generally get what they pay for. I was more upset with her dark horse song because of its rampant misuse of allusion and metaphors.
- aflyerpower8

How does one misuse a metaphor?