Fleury is average, not was, is. His save % is average. His even strength save % is average. He is fun to watch because he is out of position and has to make a great play on what should be routine plays.

Winning is fun.
- usethe1-2-2

villain in a disney movie again. I guess hcokey isnt fun unless the team goes 96-0. good luck waiting to have some fun then

Your wasting your time with him.
- madmike71

Ah... if it isn't the aptly named madmike. Thank you for your "humble" opinion.

villain in a disney movie again. I guess hcokey isnt fun unless the team goes 96-0. good luck waiting to have some fun then
- ChrisMS

Dude, you can have fun and be happy without being satisfied. Once you learn the difference then you wont be walked over by everyone trying to convince you what success is. Success is winning. Just making it isn't good enough, not with this talent.

i think they should move sutter to the number 1 center position!

The parameters of the argument you're making by pooling the Penguins in with everyone else who finished second is already lowering the bar of expectations too far to make it interesting.

Pittsburgh were supposed to be among a contending group of four or five teams over the last few years along with Boston, Chicago, Los Angeles.

Los Angeles has won the Stanley Cup twice in three years and probably will win it again this upcoming season. Have won 8 playoff series since 09.

Chicago has won the Stanley Cup twice since the Penguins went to the Finals twice; the core group has remained largely intact but the role players and goalies have been different. I thought the Penguins should have followed their example. Have won 8 playoff series since 09. This takes into account 2 straight QF losses after their first Cup run while they replenished the roster.

Boston won the Cup in 2011 and gave Pittsburgh an alarming thrashing in 2013. Have won 9 playoff series since 2009.

Pittsburgh has won 4 playoff series since winning the Stanley Cup in 2009 and brought back most of the core that were lucky to beat the 8th seeded Islanders in 2013. This era of Penguins teams is most like to be remembered as the '89 Calgary Flames of this generation due to the strength of rival teams vs. head-spinning asset mismanagement.

If you need to compare the Penguins to the Sabres or the Jets to make swallowing that slightly easier, by all means. But I won't take that, and neither should you, dear reader.
- Johnny Wrath

I'm not putting that parameter there...IT IS WHAT IT IS. Even LA has unlikeable salary issues...but when you win it all NOBODY CARES. The fact that the Penguins didn't and have not been as successful as we would have liked is exactly why people complain about salary issues.

I did no such thing (second bolded item).

My point was pretty simple. You can pick apart just about every team's salary situation with at least a few players.

its not really based on how far the pens got in the previous playoffs, but rather how they lost those series. We expect them to get to the 2nd or 3rd round, but we don't expect them to have their heads up their asses and make countless stupid plays. I would be completely fine if the pens played well and just lost strictly because the other team was better. The Blues have had worse playoff success than the pens, but St. Louis fans can be proud with how they played. Stl has had some really tough 1st round opponents.

I'm not putting that parameter there...IT IS WHAT IT IS. Even LA has unlikeable salary issues...but when you win it all NOBODY CARES. The fact that the Penguins didn't and have not been as successful as we would have liked is exactly why people complain about salary issues.

I did no such thing (second bolded item).

My point was pretty simple. You can pick apart just about every team's salary situation with at least a few players.
- icedog97

"Your wasting your time with him"

its not really based on how far the pens got in the previous playoffs, but rather how they lost those series. We expect them to get to the 2nd or 3rd round, but we don't expect them to have their heads up their asses and make countless stupid plays. I would be completely fine if the pens played well and just lost strictly because the other team was better. The Blues have had worse playoff success than the pens, but St. Louis fans can be proud with how they played. Stl has had some really tough 1st round opponents.
- drummer829

Right but when you are the more talented team losing because of coaching or a knucklehead goalie it should leave a bitter taste in your mouth.

Dude, you can have fun and be happy without being satisfied. Once you learn the difference then you wont be walked over by everyone trying to convince you what success is. Success is winning. Just making it isn't good enough, not with this talent.
- usethe1-2-2

Satisfied is at differing levels I guess. I am satisfied that the team was set up to make the playoffs year after year. I rememeber how frustrating the mid early to mid 2000's was... not only because of losing, but becuase its was bad hockey. Winning the cup every year would be great, but crosby practically missing two seasons, Malkin missing games every season, Letang stroking out, Fluery not ding what he needed to get his head on straight until last year... its not gonna happen. again... people are a little short sighted. Shero saw the cap comming and set this team up to be successful for the long run. the last couple years were always going to be a crap shoot. But the next several years are going to be set for a real legit cup team... due to sheros planning. I wonder what happens if the pens go to the final this year... will people do like Dan and say rutherford won with sheros core... or will rutherford get all the credit

Fleury is average, not was, is. His save % is average. His even strength save % is average. He is fun to watch because he is out of position and has to make a great play on what should be routine plays.

Winning is fun.
- usethe1-2-2

Who are you? Do you want to be friends. I feel like your twin in a Vulcan mind-meld. You are so right here it is astounding.

The funny thing is I let my love for the goal blind me to the fact he just is not very good. he is a nervous Nellie who reacts waaaaaay to early and overly dramatically when he is either out of position or perceives he is. He goes down quicker than "name your favorite sleaze celebrity".

Who are you? Do you want to be friends. I feel like your twin in a Vulcan mind-meld. You are so right here it is astounding.

The funny thing is I let my love for the goal blind me to the fact he just is not very good. he is a nervous Nellie who reacts waaaaaay to early and overly dramatically when he is either out of position or perceives he is. He goes down quicker than "name your favorite sleaze celebrity".
- powerhouse

I love fleury though, he just isn't anything more than average. The flash and fun is great but I want to see winning more than anything. These guys deserve that.

And sure we can be friends. First round is on you!

Douchebaggery

Douchebaggery
- dbell646

at its finest

I love fleury though, he just isn't anything more than average. The flash and fun is great but I want to see winning more than anything. These guys deserve that.

And sure we can be friends. First round is on you!
- usethe1-2-2

Thanks! OK. Wine or beer? I am more in the wino realm.

I no longer like Fleury. In fact he is close to where Bartley is with Sutter in my book. I'm tired of him. F Fleury, there I said it. I think Greiss is going to end up being a much better goalie than Fleury could ever hope to be.

Thanks! OK. Wine or beer? I am more in the wino realm.

I no longer like Fleury. In fact he is close to where Bartley is with Sutter in my book. I'm tired of him. F Fleury, there I said it. I think Greiss is going to end up being a much better goalie than Fleury could ever hope to be.
- powerhouse

I'm a beer guy, but dago red works. And I'm not that bad on Fleury, I'm just sour. The only guy I hated like Bartley and Sutter was Tyler Kennedy. I could not stand him.

I'm a beer guy, but dago red works. And I'm not that bad on Fleury, I'm just sour. The only guy I hated like Bartley and Sutter was Tyler Kennedy. I could not stand him.
- usethe1-2-2

He was annoying wasn't he? Once Cooke left he was exposed as, meh. Red is my preference as well, higher alcohol content. BTW, I scream at MAF when he goes behind the net, but he never f'ing listens.

Right but when you are the more talented team losing because of coaching or a knucklehead goalie it should leave a bitter taste in your mouth.
- usethe1-2-2

I honestly think the only SC we could have won since 09 was last year. I thought every SC team to win have been the better teams. Last year even though the Kings were good, I think quick wasn't as good and the pens could have taken it

Who are you? Do you want to be friends. I feel like your twin in a Vulcan mind-meld. You are so right here it is astounding.

The funny thing is I let my love for the goal blind me to the fact he just is not very good. he is a nervous Nellie who reacts waaaaaay to early and overly dramatically when he is either out of position or perceives he is. He goes down quicker than "name your favorite sleaze celebrity".
- powerhouse

hmm, some bold statements in this post

BTW, I scream at MAF when he goes behind the net, but he never f'ing listens.
- powerhouse

The little men on your TV can't hear you.

Success is winning. Just making it isn't good enough, not with this talent.
- usethe1-2-2

No team ever is going to win everything. If have the most talent was the only factor in winning then the 80's Oilers would have never lost and the early 90's Penguins would be the only team that could have stopped them.

Sometimes luck, injuries, gameplay, chaos theory, divine intervention, gambling and other forcer effect a game/team.

Douchebaggery
- dbell646

Yup.

I honestly think the only SC we could have won since 09 was last year. I thought every SC team to win have been the better teams. Last year even though the Kings were good, I think quick wasn't as good and the pens could have taken it
- drummer829

10 and 11 were washouts, but I thought 12 and 13 we had the talent. The team just blew up. If we could win it with Scuderi, Eaton, and Gill on D we could win it any year.

I'm a beer guy, but dago red works. And I'm not that bad on Fleury, I'm just sour. The only guy I hated like Bartley and Sutter was Tyler Kennedy. I could not stand him.
- usethe1-2-2

HAHAHHA I couldn't stand TK either! Although, had he played to his ability and not try to "Mario" his way through the neutral zone, he would have been fine and I would have enjoyed him more during his time.

No team ever is going to win everything. If have the most talent was the only factor in winning then the 80's Oilers would have never lost and the early 90's Penguins would be the only team that could have stopped them.

Sometimes luck, injuries, gameplay, chaos theory, divine intervention, gambling and other forcer effect a game/team.
- Ben37

I think you got this a little out of context. It wasn't just a singular statement

I'm a beer guy, but dago red works. And I'm not that bad on Fleury, I'm just sour. The only guy I hated like Bartley and Sutter was Tyler Kennedy. I could not stand him.
- usethe1-2-2

Tanner Glass.