You are 100% right, good assessment.

9/25/14



F Sutter
- nbartley9

Is Cooke playing tonight?

What are you going to do with yourself if Sutter has a great year?
- Victoro311

I am willing to take that gamble.

Cooke may end his career tonight.


9/25/14




F Sutter.

I am willing to take that gamble.

Cooke may end his career tonight.


9/25/14




F Sutter.
- nbartley9

Bartley if Cooke ends Sutter's career tonight....

Bartley if Cooke ends Sutter's career tonight....


- cap1681

But if Sutter ends Cooke's career.

Fleury - 5M for a non-premier goaltender
Dupuis - 3.75M for a 3rd line RW
Scuderi - 3.375 for the purposes of nostalgia
Letang - 7.250 for a #3D

Staying with Fleury has cost the Penguins a few playoff series. Lack of depth poisons every well, but not as severely as a goalie who is very good at broadcasting how rattled he is to the other team. Neglecting to trade Letang will probably cost Pittsburgh a few more close playoff series wins. Alas.
- Johnny Wrath

With MAF there are really no other options. I don't see Halak, Miller or Hiller as upgrades and they make about what he makes. I don't think FA for a G is a way to go, youll just overpay. I think the D and system is more of an issue over MAF. Although if he is just average, this is the last we will see of him.

Dupes is overpaid by .75 at most for a solid 3rd line guy.

Scuds, no reason why he is on the team.

Martin missed as many games as Letang and just as injury prone. Letang was with Scuds who is just awful. Watch the sequence of the CBJ series on the OT winner. Scuds was pathetic. Letang and Ehroff are awesome D men and the contract is just about right for what he brings. Martin will be gone after this year anyway.

EVERY SINGLE TEAM that does not win the cup...uh...29 of them I think...will look like they have this same 'mismanagement of assets' somewhere on their roster.

It is an almost unavoidable issue with a salary cap and free agency...and player contributions that change continuously...
- icedog97

The parameters of the argument you're making by pooling the Penguins in with everyone else who finished second is already lowering the bar of expectations too far to make it interesting.

Pittsburgh were supposed to be among a contending group of four or five teams over the last few years along with Boston, Chicago, Los Angeles.

Los Angeles has won the Stanley Cup twice in three years and probably will win it again this upcoming season. Have won 8 playoff series since 09.

Chicago has won the Stanley Cup twice since the Penguins went to the Finals twice; the core group has remained largely intact but the role players and goalies have been different. I thought the Penguins should have followed their example. Have won 8 playoff series since 09. This takes into account 2 straight QF losses after their first Cup run while they replenished the roster.

Boston won the Cup in 2011 and gave Pittsburgh an alarming thrashing in 2013. Have won 9 playoff series since 2009.

Pittsburgh has won 4 playoff series since winning the Stanley Cup in 2009 and brought back most of the core that were lucky to beat the 8th seeded Islanders in 2013. This era of Penguins teams is most like to be remembered as the '89 Calgary Flames of this generation due to the strength of rival teams vs. head-spinning asset mismanagement.

If you need to compare the Penguins to the Sabres or the Jets to make swallowing that slightly easier, by all means. But I won't take that, and neither should you, dear reader.

And I keep trying to hit this point home but some folks don't get it...

When you pay BIG MONEY for Crosby and Malkin..."whom specialize in making top 6 tweeners into legit top 6"...you better get used to the idea of TWEENERS.

Aside from the Scuderi and Fleury contracts...which seem to be the most debatable in terms of value per dollar...most people think the high end guys are worth the money (Crosby, Malkin, Letang). 25.5M tied up in those 3 means...get used to TWEENERS.
- icedog97

fluery's contract is only slightly overpayment. I read an interesting stat today. the pens team corsi and fenwick were bottom half of the league and yet FLuery still was winning games. mmmnnn.....

But if Sutter ends Cooke's career.


- Ben37

How true, I would be devastated.


Good thing Sutter cant hit, and plays with the grit of a soggy carrot.


9/25/14


F Sutter

The parameters of the argument you're making by pooling the Penguins in with everyone else who finished second is already lowering the bar of expectations too far to make it interesting.

Pittsburgh were supposed to be among a contending group of four or five teams over the last few years along with Boston, Chicago, Los Angeles.

Los Angeles has won the Stanley Cup twice in three years and probably will win it again this upcoming season. Have won 8 playoff series since 09.

Chicago has won the Stanley Cup twice since the Penguins went to the Finals twice; the core group has remained largely intact but the role players and goalies have been different. I thought the Penguins should have followed their example. Have won 8 playoff series since 09. This takes into account 2 straight QF losses after their first Cup run while they replenished the roster.

Boston won the Cup in 2011 and gave Pittsburgh an alarming thrashing in 2013. Have won 9 playoff series since 2009.

Pittsburgh has won 4 playoff series since winning the Stanley Cup in 2009 and brought back most of the core that were lucky to beat the 8th seeded Islanders in 2013. This era of Penguins teams is most like to be remembered as the '89 Calgary Flames of this generation due to the strength of rival teams vs. head-spinning asset mismanagement.

If you need to compare the Penguins to the Sabres or the Jets to make swallowing that slightly easier, by all means. But I won't take that, and neither should you, dear reader.
- Johnny Wrath

the entire argument here is made under the misconception that there are a certain amount of "top teams" that should win the cup. Every year is different, with injuries, luck, player development, player regressment, etc. ANY NHL team, like any team in any major league sport, can only really try to play to get into the playoffs, where anything can happen.

the entire argument here is made under the misconception that there are a certain amount of "top teams" that should win the cup. Every year is different, with injuries, luck, player development, player regressment, etc. ANY NHL team, like any team in any major league sport, can only really try to play to get into the playoffs, where anything can happen.
- ChrisMS

Then why have the three teams which you quoted in my previous text won the past five Stanley Cup Championships since Pittsburgh did it in 2009?

EVERY SINGLE TEAM that does not win the cup...uh...29 of them I think...will look like they have this same 'mismanagement of assets' somewhere on their roster.

It is an almost unavoidable issue with a salary cap and free agency...and player contributions that change continuously...
- icedog97

Right but your point was "we live in a cap world and Sid and Geno make so much money, they will always have 'tweeners' on their lines". The counter argument is that its not a cap issue.

It is quite possible for a superstar winger to be on this roster, even at $7M....just depends how you manage your assets. Especially with how we could be utilizing a roster full of young D and have tons of cash for the forwards.

There is still some very shortsighted conversation on this board regarding the make up of this team. Shero did a good job of navigating this team through the salary cap transition and setting them up for a solid future in the new NHL. Both stars are signed to contracts that will/are looking like absolute steals compared to the contracts being given out to other star players. we have so many young d assets we can count on a d-core that is at least half ELC or 2nd contracts for years. This will allow money to be spent on the forward ranks, which is starting to develop some decent potential. Look at Chicago/Boston etc. They are going to have to give up valuable assets for pennies on the dollar to stay cap compliant... you see the pens in that position? of course there were mistakes (scuds) but every GM makes em. So tone down the angry rhetoric... it shows at least a minor lack of understanding of how well this team was actually managed in a difficult time

Then why have the three teams which you quoted in my previous text won the past five Stanley Cup Championships since Pittsburgh did it in 2009?
- Johnny Wrath

lets see them continue to do so in the cap era. should they win 2 of the next 3, I will send you an apology fruitbasket

lets see them continue to do so in the cap era. should they win 2 of the next 3, I will send you an apology fruitbasket
- ChrisMS

The Cap Era started in 2005.

How true, I would be devastated.


Good thing Sutter cant hit, and plays with the grit of a soggy carrot.


9/25/14


F Sutter
- nbartley9

But what if it's a Hossa-Berard type thing. Or Therrian-McCleary incident.

There is still some very shortsighted conversation on this board regarding ... team was actually managed in a difficult time
- ChrisMS

I was at one point renowned for perceived negativity on this site. It is therefore interesting to see what has happened - it seems that the user base will be content to look upon a 32-year old Sid Crosby and joyfully recount that one Championship. This, to me, is much worse than calling for the team to be blown apart in 2013. How far have the expectations fallen for the Shero era to be defended in this fashion? This 'any given Sunday' stuff is as big a smear. How disappointing.

fluery's contract is only slightly overpayment. I read an interesting stat today. the pens team corsi and fenwick were bottom half of the league and yet FLuery still was winning games. mmmnnn.....
- ChrisMS

best power play in the league. Fleury was average at everything last season.

I was at one point renowned for perceived negativity on this site. It is therefore interesting to see what has happened - it seems that the user base will be content to look upon a 32-year old Sid Crosby and joyfully recount that one Championship. This, to me, is much worse than calling for the team to be blown apart in 2013. How far have the expectations fallen for the Shero era to be defended in this fashion? This 'any given Sunday' stuff is as big a smear. How disappointing.
- Johnny Wrath

keeping arguably the best two players in the league together on long term contracts while still icing a competitive team year in and year out will never be seen as disappointing. win the cup or lose it, I will not judge the team based ONLY on championships. If a 32 year old crosby only has one championship but the team was entertaining and competitive year after year, I am absolutely ok with that. I only feel bad for those so caught up in the need to win a championship to justify their love for this sport that they miss out on the fact that this team is as fun to watch as any in the league.

keeping arguably the best two players in the league together on long term contracts while still icing a competitive team year in and year out will never be seen as disappointing. win the cup or lose it, I will not judge the team based ONLY on championships. If a 32 year old crosby only has one championship but the team was entertaining and competitive year after year, I am absolutely ok with that. I only feel bad for those so caught up in the need to win a championship to justify their love for this sport that they miss out on the fact that this team is as fun to watch as any in the league.
- ChrisMS

Ah, the old pathos argument.

"The Flyers don't win, but at least watching them try to be tough is fun."

Is this the kind of thing you've settled for?

best power play in the league. Fleury was average at everything last season.
- usethe1-2-2

fluery was "average" playing for a below average defensive team. AND he is really fun to watch

keeping arguably the best two players in the league together on long term contracts while still icing a competitive team year in and year out will never be seen as disappointing. win the cup or lose it, I will not judge the team based ONLY on championships. If a 32 year old crosby only has one championship but the team was entertaining and competitive year after year, I am absolutely ok with that. I only feel bad for those so caught up in the need to win a championship to justify their love for this sport that they miss out on the fact that this team is as fun to watch as any in the league.
- ChrisMS

YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME!

fluery was "average" playing for a below average defensive team. AND he is really fun to watch
- ChrisMS

Fleury is average, not was, is. His save % is average. His even strength save % is average. He is fun to watch because he is out of position and has to make a great play on what should be routine plays.

Winning is fun.

Ah, the old pathos argument.

"The Flyers don't win, but at least watching them try to be tough is fun."

Is this the kind of thing you've settled for?
- Johnny Wrath

I've settled for a team that has a chance to win every year, has the top player in the league and one of the other top players, and honestly, if it comes to being happy to watch fun hockey and be entertained, and being miserable watching the same hockey because you cant appreciate how lucky you have it, I'll take the first option any day of the week.

YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME!
- usethe1-2-2

you sound like the villain coach in a disney sports movie. Last I checked the pens have a winning record every year and make the playoffs. where anything can happen

Ah, the old pathos argument.

"The Flyers don't win, but at least watching them try to be tough is fun."

Is this the kind of thing you've settled for?
- Johnny Wrath

Your wasting your time with him.