Fun? I couldn't imagine being a minor league tough guy riding a bus and fighting monstrous guys who can't skate for a minor league salary. Very slapshot to me lol

Now, if anyone would pay me my current salary to play goal for a living, sign me up!
- Hextall271

I'll gladly sit on an uncomfortable bus and what not if someone is willing to pay me $125k to play a game for 7-8 months.

I think Paul Stewart had a blog about something like that. I am trying to do it off memory but he made reference to having to fight because one of his own guys was running around like an idiot. Tough guys don't want to have to keep answering the bell when their own player is running around and then not stepping up to it. So it deters them a little because they're own tough guys kind of puts them in place. I think it was something like that
- J35Bacher

I think it did back when Stewart played. Not sure it does now. Guys line up, ask each other "Wanna go?" and fight. They're not fighting to protect anyone or get payback for a hit or anything. The accept it as part of the job.

I'm not sold a Torres or Tootoo would be deterred by Stortini or even Rosehill, who is a good fighter. That's kind of my issue with icing an enforcer.

Now a days, guys like Torres or Neil will still lay a big hit, and then turtle if a guy like Rosehill or Orr comes over to dispense justice. They will only fight a skilled guy or a non tough guy. Generally when a Rosehill fights, he's fighting a guy like Orr anyhow. Not sure how Rosehill fighting another team's enforcer stops Neil or Tootoo from taking a run at a skill guy.

From a strictly AHL point of view, I get Stortini. Different league and style of play.
- Jsaquella

Good points. Carrying an enforcer is sort of a catch 22. Team A keeps an enforcer around to fight Team B's enforcer and Team B keeps their enforcer to fight Team A's.

Agree, I could see both sides...he did have some flashes of being a pretty good D man with some offensive skill, his mistakes though were epic...
- JW98FlyerFan

I don;t think his mistakes, especially in terms of coverage, were worse than the mistakes supposedly strong defensive guys like Schenn or Grossmann made at points last season, or the kind of mistakes a veteran like Meszaros made before he was traded.

Teams really value size when looking at depth defensemen. It's why Gostisbehere was available in round three. If he was 3 inches taller and 20 lbs heavier, he's probably a mid first rounder. Gustafsson, like Diaz, is smaller. Teams are going to roll the dice on a bigger frame or toughness before a small dude.

Good points. Carrying an enforcer is sort of a catch 22. Team A keeps an enforcer around to fight Team B's enforcer and Team B keeps their enforcer to fight Team A's.
- NickTheKid87

That's why I hate when the Flyers dress Rosehill specifically because the Leafs have Orr or the Bruins have Thornton. At least Rosehill can skate a bit. Other goons are utterly worthless. Helps that Rosehill is cheap, too.

That's why I hate when the Flyers dress Rosehill specifically because the Leafs have Orr or the Bruins have Thornton. At least Rosehill can skate a bit. Other goons are utterly worthless. Helps that Rosehill is cheap, too.
- Jsaquella

Aside from an injury, Rosehill was always in there because so-and-so team was dressing so-and-so enforcer and I'm sure that other team decided to dress their enforcer because of Rosehill (or they had an injury). Either way, what's the point in dressing a guy solely so he can fight with the other guy who's only in the game to fight with him?

That's why I hate when the Flyers dress Rosehill specifically because the Leafs have Orr or the Bruins have Thornton. At least Rosehill can skate a bit. Other goons are utterly worthless. Helps that Rosehill is cheap, too.
- Jsaquella

Or, you dress a 4th line that is really a 3B and then take advantage of the mis-match. Then when the other coach plays his 4th line for 5 minutes, his first 3 lines get gassed while you roll 4 complete lines.

Good points. Carrying an enforcer is sort of a catch 22. Team A keeps an enforcer around to fight Team B's enforcer and Team B keeps their enforcer to fight Team A's.
- NickTheKid87

The NHL (especially the Flyers) is fueled by circular logic.

Or, you dress a 4th line that is really a 3B and then take advantage of the mis-match. Then when the other coach plays his 4th line for 5 minutes, his first 3 lines get gassed while you roll 4 complete lines.
- TheGreat28

That's my view of it. Exploit it. Don't embrace it and feed the other team.

Or, you dress a 4th line that is really a 3B and then take advantage of the mis-match. Then when the other coach plays his 4th line for 5 minutes, his first 3 lines get gassed while you roll 4 complete lines.
- TheGreat28

That makes way too much sense. This is hockey, not sense-making.

Aside from an injury, Rosehill was always in there because so-and-so team was dressing so-and-so enforcer and I'm sure that other team decided to dress their enforcer because of Rosehill (or they had an injury). Either way, what's the point in dressing a guy solely so he can fight with the other guy who's only in the game to fight with him?
- NickTheKid87

It's how it's always been done. Breaking the norm is frowned upon, even if a team has success with it,

I'm not saying teams don't need toughness. You absolutely need guys who are willing and capable of fighting and hitting and being physical presences. But you need team toughness. A team of figure skaters and a Jay Rosehill won't be successful. You need a team with toughness up and down the roster-and that doesn't mean just fighting.

The NHL (especially the Flyers) is fueled by circular logic.
- jmatchett383

I love hockey as a sport but it's very conservative in it's culture and traditions. That makes it easier to exploit if you're a progressive coach. Look what Chip Kelly is doing in the NFL. He's exploiting "tradition" and the "we do it this way because that's how we've always done it" mentality.

It's how it's always been done. Breaking the norm is frowned upon, even if a team has success with it,

I'm not saying teams don't need toughness. You absolutely need guys who are willing and capable of fighting and hitting and being physical presences. But you need team toughness. A team of figure skaters and a Jay Rosehill won't be successful. You need a team with toughness up and down the roster-and that doesn't mean just fighting.
- Jsaquella

See: 2013-2014 Buffalo Sabres featuring Jon Scott and Steve Ott.

I love hockey as a sport but it's very conservative in it's culture and traditions. That makes it easier to exploit if you're a progressive coach. Look what Chip Kelly is doing in the NFL. He's exploiting "tradition" and the "we do it this way because that's how we've always done it" mentality.
- NickTheKid87

They've also gotten fairly lucky in the 20 games he's coached.

It's how it's always been done. Breaking the norm is frowned upon, even if a team has success with it,

I'm not saying teams don't need toughness. You absolutely need guys who are willing and capable of fighting and hitting and being physical presences. But you need team toughness. A team of figure skaters and a Jay Rosehill won't be successful. You need a team with toughness up and down the roster-and that doesn't mean just fighting.
- Jsaquella

The fact that teams, coaches, players et al put tradition and customs ahead of winning is moronic. It's the definition cutting off your nose to spite your face.

They've also gotten fairly lucky in the 20 games he's coached.
- jmatchett383

No doubt about that.

They've also gotten fairly lucky in the 20 games he's coached.
- jmatchett383

He challenges the norm in order to find the best way to win games and ultimately a championship. He refuses to do something without a sound reason behind it. Doing something because "that's the way it's always been done" is foolish if that's the only reason you're doing it.

They've also gotten fairly lucky in the 20 games he's coached.
- jmatchett383

I'll gladly accept a lucky championship.

He challenges the norm in order to find the best way to win games and ultimately a championship. He refuses to do something without a sound reason behind it. Doing something because "that's the way it's always been done" is foolish if that's the only reason you're doing it.
- NickTheKid87

I'm not discounting that, or the point you're making. I'm simply stating that, in the particular example you've given...he's been pretty lucky so far.

I'll gladly accept a lucky championship.
- johndewar

Oh, no doubt. You take one any way you can get it, for the most part. My only point is that you can't rely on luck. The Colts proved that (burn, kinda?).

I'm not discounting that, or the point you're making. I'm simply stating that, in the particular example you've given...he's been pretty lucky so far.
- jmatchett383

He's lead the NFL in offense in his tenure too. But the results aren't as much of the point (given the low sample size) as are the concepts behind them. You could use Fred Shero as an example too and there's a much bigger sample size.

were surprised alt and cousins were sentback so quickly as they seemed to play well? cant wait until they cut ties with manning. not an nhl caliber player.

VV is also a still no need for him to be around. just filler i guess though rather see a few young guys play the scrimmage games.
- rinaldo

A veteran like Vandevelde has to be waived to be sent down. Waiver period doesn't start until tommorrow I beleive.

Oh, no doubt. You take one any way you can get it, for the most part. My only point is that you can't rely on luck. The Colts proved that (burn, kinda?).
- jmatchett383

You're right. I also don't think Kelly has all the pieces in place yet; especially on defense. I think the Eagles defense is entertainingly awful.

It's how it's always been done. Breaking the norm is frowned upon, even if a team has success with it
- Jsaquella

Which makes the recent hirings of all these young, untraditionalists so encouraging... the NHL establishment is in dire need of a disruptive, kick in the groin.

Because he is a bottom pair defenseman, who is on the small side. It why a guy like Michael Del Zotto was available as a free agent in August, and why guys who were effective like Rafael Diaz are in camp on try outs rather than getting big contracts like a stiff like Derek Engelland.

Teams like bigger, more physical guys on the third pair, but guys like Diaz and Gustafsson usually end up finding jobs.
- Jsaquella

you said he is an overall effective player. if that was the case woudllt at least one team have room for him in their top 6? or owuldnt they take a flyers on him for a 7th rd pick?