Agreed. It's like arguing Crosby vs. Giroux. They're both superstars, but they're on completely different levels. I think it's the difference between "enforcer" and "fighter." I'd call Prust a fighter, but not an enforcer.

Edit: Yeah, what you just said.
- jmatchett383

Like I said. "True Enforcer" is a grey area now. Im pretty sure in what your opinion of a true enforcer is, has not lasted in the NHL very long at all (Just a few games here or there). You have to be able to contribute more than fighting and always have.

Probably about as much as Stortini was. All he did all game was lurk around and try to get players to fight him. It was a bit embrassing.

Again, I know that's his role, but come on!
- jmatchett383

If we're gonna make a distinction between fighter and enforcer then I'm gonna make another one: goon and the description of play you gave is what they are except in this case they have to be really ugly too and Stortini is just that! Now with said distinctions and considering stortini's traits I'd consider him an Elite Goon, perhaps the best there is.

What I've gotten out of the preseason so far:

From the kids:
Sanheim has great wheels and poise
Ghost has fantastic puck skills
Morin is huge and moves well for a big guy
Laughton is very solid defensively and good along the wall
Leier skates really well and seems to have a nose for the puck
Aube-Kubel has good hands and hockey sense
Stolarz moves very well post to post for such a big man
Alt skates pretty well and is positionally sound

From the vets:
Streit will be an upgrade to Timonen on the pp due to his heavy shot
Don't piss off Wayne Simmonds
Raffl has great wheels and pretty good hockey sense
Umberger seems to still have something left in the tank
VLC seemed to be skating a bit better and still has a nasty shot


For those trying to pass final judgement on players based on what you've seen so far, my advice is don't. Rookies often will press and try to do to much because they are trying to impress, while vets are just trying to get their timing down. You can very easily read way too much into what you see in preseason games.

Like I said. "True Enforcer" is a grey area now. Im pretty sure in what your opinion of a true enforcer is, has not lasted in the NHL very long at all (Just a few games here or there). You have to be able to contribute more than fighting and always have.
- GOA88

Agreed, the type of enforcer needed today, if at all, is the Bob Probert/Dave Schultz type. A guy that can not only fight, but play his wing and chip in 10-15 goals.

If we're gonna make a distinction between fighter and enforcer then I'm gonna make another one: goon and the description of play you gave is what they are except in this case they have to be really ugly too and Stortini is just that! Now with said distinctions and considering stortini's traits I'd consider him an Elite Goon, perhaps the best there is.
- JoeRussomanno

Yup he's basically Frank Bialowas with a bit more skill and speed.

Yup he's basically Frank Bialowas.
- BiggE

ftfy. Perfect description.

ftfy. Perfect description.
- jmatchett383

If we're gonna make a distinction between fighter and enforcer then I'm gonna make another one: goon and the description of play you gave is what they are except in this case they have to be really ugly too and Stortini is just that! Now with said distinctions and considering stortini's traits I'd consider him an Elite Goon, perhaps the best there is.
- JoeRussomanno

Basically what I was getting at was that there are fewer and fewer guys in the NHL that only exist because they can fight. Before there was an abundance, now they are nearly non-existent.

Right, wrong, or indifferent, fights draw casual fans to minor league hockey games. (*looks at Frank Bialowas*)

Not all hockey fans care about watching their favorites from the CHL blossom at the AHL or the ECHL level. Some people just want cheap tickets to a hockey game, drink cheap beer, and to watch two people beat the hell out of each other.

Anyone who doesn't believe fighting is part of marketing minor league hockey teams is being disingenuous.
- johndewar

Yup he's basically Frank Bialowas with a bit more skill and speed.
- BiggE

Frank Bialowas did have an awesome mullet.

Re the opening roster:
I really don't see too many spots open

Goal: Mason & Emery

D: Coburn, MDZ, AMac, Streit, Grossmann and Schenn are locks. I suppose a guy like Manning could beat out Schultz for the 7th spot or make it if they decide to carry 8, but to do so as the 7th he will have to clearly and convincingly out play Schultz. The only other possible change would be Alt starting the season with the big club if Grossmann is unable to go.

Forwards
Locks (10): Giroux, Schenn, VLC, Couturier, Voracek, Read, Simmonds, Umberger, Raffl, Rinaldo.

Near lock: Bellemare

That basically leaves Akeson, Rosehill, Alderson, Laughton, Jones and Gordon fighting it out for 2 or 3 spots. my guess is that Rosehill is a lock if they carry 14 forwards and likely if they only carry 13 and that Akeson, cause he would have to be exposed to waivers, starts the season as the 12th forward. If they do carry 14, I think the last spot likely comes down to Gordon or Jones. However, it won't surprise me in the least if Laughton is on the big club before the end of the season.

Frank Bialowas did have an awesome mullet.
- johndewar

Basically what I was getting at was that there are fewer and fewer guys in the NHL that only exist because they can fight. Before there was an abundance, now they are nearly non-existent.
- jak521

Maybe down to just Scott and perhaps one or 2 others.

13th forwards that play at a very high level? If a player can play at a high level, he's not going to be a 13th forward.
- MJL

Milan Lucic is a 13th forward?

Maybe down to just Scott and perhaps one or 2 others.
- BiggE

Scott, SJ
McGratton, CGY
Orr, TOR
Peluso, WPG
Rosehill, PHI
Bordeleau, COL
Reaves, STL


There are actually more goons who are still UFA or were only able to secure camp invites.

The number of then is really dwindling.... wasn't more than 5-8 years ago when every team (except Detroit) could all be counted on to have at least one. Now it's down to just a handful of teams.

Still looking for one more manager for fantasy league.
PM if you are interested

Scott, SJ
McGratton, CGY
Orr, TOR
Peluso, WPG
Rosehill, PHI
Bordeleau, COL
Reaves, STL


There are actually more goons who are still UFA or were only able to secure camp invites.

The number of goons is really dwindling.... wasn't more than 5-8 years ago when every team (except Detroit) could all be counted on to have at least one.
- Tomahawk

True
Detroit broke the mold in the 90s. Guys like Probert, Kocur and McCarty could certainly throw em, but they could also play and weren't a liability to have in the lineup. The Flyers, to their credit, have had a lot of guys over the years that fit that mold: Schultz, Holmgren, Behn Wilson, Bridgman, Brown, Berube and Brashear could all fight and could all play the game to a great or at least some extent.

Still looking for one more manager for fantasy league.
PM if you are interested
- nails

Nucker will join any fantasy league in any sport at any time.

The Flyers would ratherl et Alt play if Grossmann can't instead of throwing Morin in. We have a gm that excersies patients finally and now we want him throwing our D prospects right into the show.
- J35Bacher

Deflected very high in the zone. Still trackable and stoppable.
- bmeltzer

i'm just gonna' go ahead and disagree with you there.

True
Detroit broke the mold in the 90s. Guys like Probert, Kocur and McCarty could certainly throw em, but they could also play and weren't a liability to have in the lineup. The Flyers, to their credit, have had a lot of guys over the years that fit that mold: Schultz, Holmgren, Behn Wilson, Bridgman, Brown, Berube and Brashear could all fight and could all play the game to a great or at least some extent.
- BiggE

Yeah, think Kocur's the last full-time heavy they dressed, and that was back around 2000. The were the first team to transition to a more "team toughness" approach w/ Lapointe, Shanny, Chelios, McCarty, Maltby, etc. Then they basically transitioned to no toughness at all in the late-2000's.

Think you'll more or less see every other team complete that arc in the next 10-years.

I think several guys played well. Alderson, Cousins, Bellemare, Rinaldo all looked good.

Stortini is awful. He's willing to fight, but he's not good at it and he sucks as a player
- Jsaquella

i'm tired of the flyers always having a guy like this in their system.

i'm tired of the flyers always having a guy like this in their system.
- hammarby31

He's not waiver exempt, so after camp, maybe he'll be a Leaf or a Flame. /pray

I didn't take much from last night's game, for the period I saw. I was just chatting just to chat.

I mean, seriously. JVR had better score against the lineup the Flyers dressed last night.

I have always had the sneaking suspicion that Laughton might need just a bit of AHL seasoning, but that isn't a bad thing. I think it is entirely possible that we will look back and say whatever time he would spend under Terry Murray, if/when be is sent down, was time well spent.

Yup he's basically Frank Bialowas with a bit more skill and speed.
- BiggE

Aw... The animal... I worked with him when he went to American towers cool guy