The problem with "dismissing" analytics the way Nolan does is that it totally ignores where its value really lies. It doesn't lie with the elite players. Sometimes your eyes and analytics tell you the exact same thing. Really good players are really good, and really bad players have no business playing in this league. The real value in analytics comes with the middle of the road players, in that clump where the majority of the players reside. That's where you separate and round out your roster and payroll. And those are the players where the "eye test" isn't enough.

The problem with "dismissing" analytics the way Nolan does is that it totally ignores where its value really lies. It doesn't lie with the elite players. Sometimes your eyes and analytics tell you the exact same thing. Really good players are really good, and really bad players have no business playing in this league. The real value in analytics comes with the middle of the road players, in that clump where the majority of the players reside. That's where you separate and round out your roster and payroll. And those are the players where the "eye test" isn't enough.
- buffalofan19

Which most of those decisions such as how much to pay a free agent or to resign someone would lie with the GM not the coach

The problem with "dismissing" analytics the way Nolan does is that it totally ignores where its value really lies. It doesn't lie with the elite players. Sometimes your eyes and analytics tell you the exact same thing. Really good players are really good, and really bad players have no business playing in this league. The real value in analytics comes with the middle of the road players, in that clump where the majority of the players reside. That's where you separate and round out your roster and payroll. And those are the players where the "eye test" isn't enough.
- buffalofan19

Shea Weber disagrees. He is nowhere on the charts for 5 on 5 advanced statistics.

He got 75% (roughly) of this teams wins and essentially played half the season. While facing more shots. He played really, really well last year
- sbroads24

You're still taking a stat and spinning it the way you want. Which is fine. But you're not going to convince me that it's a stat that really mattered.

It was a historically bad team. Period. His stats aren't that great. Neither are any of the other goalies that played here. Because the team was crap.

He got 75% (roughly) of this teams wins and essentially played half the season. While facing more shots. He played really, really well last year
- sbroads24

Teams that start out as poorly as the Sabres did are going to win a greater percentage of games later in the year. It happens with just about every team that ends up at or near the bottom wire to wire. Teams play their backup goaltenders, rest players, etc. against them.

Like I said, the Sabres increase in effort last year had far more to do with who wasn't behind the bench than who was, regardless of what sob story performance Drew Stafford wants to perform for the media.

This is a game played between humans, officiated by humans, watched by humans, and coached by humans. There is not a mathematical formula in the world that can tell you what team will win every game. That is the human side. Sure you can figure out the odds but the only thing that is 100% correct 100% all the time is what Nolan said. If you score 1 more goal than your opponent you will win.

Emotions are a big part of the game and because you can't put a number behind it you are quick to dismiss it.
- Stripes77

And once again, you're taking the converse of what I am saying. I am not arguing that there is no place for scouting. I am saying that the complete dismissal of statistics is foolish. Who is aruging that they tell you everything? Or that they should be the end-all of coaching or player selection?

Ten years ago there were people just like these dinosaurs that laughed at stats in baseball. The first manager that started shifting his infield around was at times ridiculed. Now, everyone does it. Does he claim that stats are everything? Of course not. He had a tool in his toolbelt and he put it to use. Other times he might have a gut feel to start the runner on a 2 strike count. It doesn't have to be one or the other - that's what so many people here are missing.

He accounted for almost 75% of our wins, despite playing only 50 % of the games
- sbroads24

He played in 40 of 58 games here.

Which is 68.97%.

Which most of those decisions such as how much to pay a free agent or to resign someone would lie with the GM not the coach
- Stripes77

If the GM and the coach aren't on the same page, you have a disaster.

See Sabres, Buffalo

Teams that start out as poorly as the Sabres did are going to win a greater percentage of games later in the year. It happens with just about every team that ends up at or near the bottom wire to wire. Teams play their backup goaltenders, rest players, etc. against them.

Like I said, the Sabres increase in effort last year had far more to do with who wasn't behind the bench than who was, regardless of what sob story performance Drew Stafford wants to perform for the media.
- buffalofan19

They didn't though. They won what 3 of their last 21 after the Miller trade?

If the GM and the coach aren't on the same page, you have a disaster.See Sabres, Buffalo
- buffalofan19

Which one of Murray or Nolan told you that they don't see eye to eye?

He played in 40 of 58 games here.

Which is 68.97%.
- dadeadhead

He played in 50% of the Sabres games...Actually less 40 out of 82=48%

They didn't though. They won what 3 of their last 21 after the Miller trade?
- sbroads24

They won 5 of their last 24 games.

Miller's last game played was Feb 25th.

Which one of Murray or Nolan told you that they don't see eye to eye?
- sbroads24

I meant the prior regime.

They didn't though. They won what 3 of their last 21 after the Miller trade?
- sbroads24

With goalies that had no business being in the NHL.

Don't get me wrong, I like Miller. I have more Miller stuff in my house than I know what to do with right now. But let's not sugarcoat that his stats were pretty much ordinary last year.

And once again, you're taking the converse of what I am saying. I am not arguing that there is no place for scouting. I am saying that the complete dismissal of statistics is foolish. Who is aruging that they tell you everything? Or that they should be the end-all of coaching or player selection?

Ten years ago there were people just like these dinosaurs that laughed at stats in baseball. The first manager that started shifting his infield around was at times ridiculed. Now, everyone does it. Does he claim that stats are everything? Of course not. He had a tool in his toolbelt and he put it to use. Other times he might have a gut feel to start the runner on a 2 strike count. It doesn't have to be one or the other - that's what so many people here are missing.
- Slump Buster

just to point out, baseball and hockey are two different games with the former being a series of one-on-one pitcher/hitter battles... and that battle, which goes on at least 27 times per game is confined to an area roughly three feet high and eighteen inches wide, namely, the strike zone

Relax. Pachla I do think you do a good job, and I can see that you spend a lot of time putting the work in. I am just bored and in a bad mood so I am trying to stir the pot. I thank you for taking the time to do these blogs and I do respect your opinion. It is just more fun for me if I pretend I don't. Keep up the good work. To say that you are a huge upgrade to Garth is the understatement of the year. Thank you for dong what you do Pachla. I would rather criticize you than anyone else.
- SabresPanacea

So this is article A I get to point to if you find yourself banned.

How about just providing an honest assessment of the topic? No one cares what mood you're in.

With goalies that had no business being in the NHL.

Don't get me wrong, I like Miller. I have more Miller stuff in my house than I know what to do with right now. But let's not sugarcoat that his stats were pretty much ordinary last year.
- HonkFortheGoose

??? When wearing A Sabres uniform? his SV% was his second best in his career behind his Vezina winning season

He played in 50% of the Sabres games...Actually less 40 out of 82=48%
- Stripes77

He played in 68.97% of games as a Sabre.

The stats when he wasn't here matter not.

We dressed what 7 goalies after he left?

They were 5-18-2 after he was traded.

16-33-8 with Miller on the team.

Thus meaning Miller had 93.75% of the teams wins as a member of the Sabres organization, while playing in 68.97% of the games.

He played in 68.97% of games as a Sabre.

The stats when he wasn't here matter not.

We dressed what 7 goalies after he left?

They were 5-18-2 after he was traded.

16-33-8 with Miller on the team.

Thus meaning Miller had 93.75% of the teams wins as a member of the Sabres organization, while playing in 68.97% of the games.
- dadeadhead

For some reason, I thought we were talking about Nolan.

He played in 68.97% of games as a Sabre.

The stats when he wasn't here matter not.

We dressed what 7 goalies after he left?

They were 5-18-2 after he was traded.

16-33-8 with Miller on the team.

Thus meaning Miller had 93.75% of the teams wins as a member of the Sabres organization, while playing in 68.97% of the games.
- dadeadhead

76% not 93%. 16 wins out of 21 were when Miller was in net which equals 76%

Once Nolan is shown how to use a knife and fork he may find himself reëvaluating his position. Learning to crawl and all that.

76% not 93%. 16 wins out of 21 were when Miller was in net which equals 76%
- Stripes77

He had 15 wins out of the 16 wins they had prior to him being moved or 93.75% of the teams wins.

What this team did or what he did after he was gone matter not.

What's with all the drama over stats? This is like (frank)ing days of our lives. Everyone uses statistics for hockey analysis, either explicitly or implicitly, they play a role. Who gives a shark whether or not you use 'advanced' statistics? Everyone weighs different statistics differently in their decision making. Some people don't weigh certain statistics (i.e. corsi, fenwick, etc.) at all. Their loss. Is it a significant loss or a negligible loss? That's circumstantial and besides the point. Is it actually a gain because using these stats could mislead their decision making? Also circumstantial and besides the point. Whether or not an individual can trust himself with using statistics is not a property of the usefulness of the statistic. It's a property of the usefulness of the individual.

And give me a break with the whole 'give me a Crosby or a Kopitar and it doesn't need to be broken down further' thing. What a waste of breath that statement is. That's pretty much like saying "complicated information is irrelevant for very simple decisions" as a rationalization for "complicated information is irrelevant." Whoever thought up that argument needs to do some meditation on the inner-workings of their own capacity for logic.

One more thing. This statement "hockey's not all that difficult" is a complete load of bullpoop. Another waste of breath. Sure hockey isn't that difficult, if you don't try to understand the insanely chaotic system that is hockey analysis. If all you see is W or L and you don't try to break down those functions into the variables that influence them then of course it's not going to be all that difficult.

Some people...

(more to come)

He had 15 wins out of the 16 wins they had prior to him being moved or 93.75% of the teams wins.

What this team did or what he did after he was gone matter not.
- dadeadhead

That was not the original statement though. Miller played in 50% of the Sabres games last season and was in net for 75% of their total wins of all of last season.

I get what you are saying but that wasn't the original statement.

If this were true it would show.

Sabres are almost at the finish line of the crappy rebuilding process. Tank, take the pick, and then hire the real people to take the reigns. Nolan was a PR hire, nothing more nothing less (at least that is what he should be).
- Ryan_Wilson

So let me understand your logic, Nolan took the reins a few months into last season, of a team that was in utter free fall, and stocked with teenagers(who shouldn't have been on the team). It took another few months to just gain a bit of stability though also losing veteran leadership in Miller, Vanek, Ott, and Moulson.......and you think a turn around should already have been evident through statistical analysis by end of last season(with not even a full term of Nolan under the teams belt).

That's probably not the dumbest thing I've heard on here in a while.....but it's close.