even if your goalie gives up 10 goals on 50 shots, he's still not your biggest problem. giving up 50 shots is a sign of catastrophic breakdowns all over the ice.
- DoubleDown

the Leafs could of/can trim 15 shots of their total against if they just covered the damn points.

I agree 100%
- bixll

So if you agree 100%

then you and Lou should have np with frattin getting 3 mins of ice time a game and expect him to put up the same points as JVR getting 18 mins a game.

no different

Team Korea in the next olympics
- TonkaPhaneuf

Uh oh...teams better prepare for a new defensive style. A slight but potentially dangerous variation of New Jersey's game plan called the Booby Trap.

Uh oh...teams better prepare for a new defensive style. A slight but potentially dangerous variation of New Jersey's game plan called the Booby Trap.
- Woderwick

if leafs played the trap...

man, id be pissed! zzzzzzzz

So if you agree 100%

then you and Lou should have np with frattin getting 3 mins of ice time a game and expect him to put up the same points as JVR getting 18 mins a game.

no different
- Lucas Neilson

This I do not agree with.

so your eyes tell you that it's his fault the team gave up 50 shots? your eyes tell you that there's not a chance that having faced so much rubber, the goalie was a bit worn down and more prone to giving up soft goals?
- DoubleDown

Okay - in this hypothetical, the first 3 shots went in weakly. My point is simply around the importance of combining what you see with the stats. That's all.

Honestly Lucas, I don't give a (frank) about O or D zone faceoff starts etc.. I only care and watch how players position themselves, how they react when a faceoff is lost or how they compete for the puck along the boards or how some make the same bonehead plays over and over again (like Grabo in the Bruins series).

At the end of the day or game that is what determines if you win or lose.
- LeafMan

well, the things you care about happen to influence the things you don't care about

Japan had a team in 98, Italy in 2006. though im pretty sure the Italian team was just guys from Montreal and Toronto.
- DoubleDown

Woodbridge

if leafs played the trap...

man, id be pissed! zzzzzzzz
- Lucas Neilson

You might like Korea's version.

Okay - in this hypothetical, the first 3 shots went in weakly. My point is simply around the importance of combining what you see with the stats. That's all.
- Deeps27

fair point BUT the main issue is that you used a one game sample size. any stat nerd or advocate will be the first one to tell you that data without a meaningful sample size is useless.

This I do not agree with.
- bixll

exactly.

so whats the difference?

if you are not put in a position to succeed more than another person then how can you expect to have the same results or better?

bozak and phil in that series got ALL the offensive chances handed to them from powerplay, to O zone faceoffs, to extra ice time, changing so phil didnt have to go vs chara

SORRY GUYS

these are factors in a game, like it or not.

Uh oh...teams better prepare for a new defensive style. A slight but potentially dangerous variation of New Jersey's game plan called the Booby Trap.
- Woderwick

Last April, the IIHF expressed to the Korea Ice Hockey Association their desire to see the country make "progress in performance." That progress, at least on the men's side, meant seeing the team rise to 18th in the IIHF world rankings, a tall task after recently being relegated to Group B in the Division I World Championships.

The IIHF Congress decided on Friday that the Olympic hosts should be able to participate after the KIHA presented a four-year development plan that will see $20 million invested into the national team program.

Make fun all you want, but that's respectable start

exactly.

so whats the difference?

if you are not put in a position to succeed more than another person then how can you expect to have the same results or better?

bozak and phil in that series got ALL the offensive chances handed to them from powerplay, to O zone faceoffs, to extra ice time, changing so phil didnt have to go vs chara

SORRY GUYS

these are factors in a game, like it or not.
- Lucas Neilson

wait... IS THIS A GRABO DISCUSSION!?!?!?

And everyone who complains about the Gunnar/Polak trade forgets that Gunnar can't make a tape-to-tape pass in his own zone or chip a puck past a pinching Dman. It's crazy.
- Deeps27

And he wasn't physical.

exactly.

so whats the difference?

if you are not put in a position to succeed more than another person then how can you expect to have the same results or better?

bozak and phil in that series got ALL the offensive chances handed to them from powerplay, to O zone faceoffs, to extra ice time, changing so phil didnt have to go vs chara

SORRY GUYS

these are factors in a game, like it or not.
- Lucas Neilson

Ok, I will watch the games.. Ignore the stats

wait... IS THIS A GRABO DISCUSSION!?!?!?
- Feeling Glucky?

There was talk on leafs lunch today about putting Bozak, Kessel and JVR all on different lines.
Not sure about that...but I wouldnt mind seeing JVR on the 2nd and Lupul back up on the first.

wait... IS THIS A GRABO DISCUSSION!?!?!?
- Feeling Glucky?

not exactly, its moreso just about the game having more to it than just skate, shoot, pass, score

Congrats on your cup.
- Deeps27

You wet your panties when the Leafs made the playoffs in a shortened season.

Get off that high horse.

Ok, I will watch the games.. Ignore the stats
- bixll

lol i dunno why you are being like that im just saying there are factors in a game the coach considers to ice his team in the best manor possible, from ice time, to faceoffs, to PK, PP, everything...

Honestly Lucas, I don't give a (frank) about O or D zone faceoff starts etc.. I only care and watch how players position themselves, how they react when a faceoff is lost or how they compete for the puck along the boards or how some make the same bonehead plays over and over again (like Grabo in the Bruins series).

At the end of the day or game that is what determines if you win or lose.
- LeafMan

To say that it is just compete is naive. More important is being in the right place at the right time, ie the system that is employed by the coach. To say it is just compete when our systems are leaving half the zone to be covered by one guy is shortsighted IMO

Ok, I will watch the games.. Ignore the stats
- bixll

watch the games..then look at the stats and see if they align with what you saw

if they dont ..its good to question what you are seeing happen..maybe you are missing stuff

if you just say..well the stats are dumb then .. then thats how you feel

well, the things you care about happen to influence the things you don't care about
- Feeling Glucky?

Might be just me but I like to watch a game and not have these preconceived stats in my head while I watch it, I rather just enjoy watching the game, I can leave the stats to analytic nerds, I really don't care about them, sucks the enjoyment out of the game for me.

There was talk on leafs lunch today about putting Bozak, Kessel and JVR all on different lines.
Not sure about that...but I wouldnt mind seeing JVR on the 2nd and Lupul back up on the first.
- Fakepartofme

try Lupul with JVR, dont think we have tried that one yet

To say that it is just compete is naive. More important is being in the right place at the right time, ie the system that is employed by the coach. To say it is just compete when our systems are leaving half the zone to be covered by one guy is shortsighted IMO
- lumlums

Of course it can be coaching but if a player keeps repeating the same bad habits, there is a problem some where down the pipeline.