you guy, don't make me come over there and scramble your eggs... I always forget the salt.
- Mr_Clean

joke's on you, I don't even have any eggs

joke's on you, I don't even have any eggs
- BulliesPhan87

*saddles up ostrich*


Be there soon, buddy!

It just seems wrong to say this, as it straight-up implies Legwand > Spezza. Call me crazy, but I don't think that there is a team in this league that would trade Spezza for Legwand, straight-up.
- Mr_Clean

I think you are right, but I think based on the market for Spezza a lot of NHL GM's and scouts do not believe this is a player you bring into your team to build a winner with - it's not like we got anything close to what the Sabers got for vanek or what the fan base tbhought we would get - not a huge lineup to add Spezza to your team.

Spezza is a good player but he is not considered a reliable player, good PP player and good teammate but I think a lot of teams (especially in the west) are looking for centers that can play hard 2-way hockey against Toewes/Kopitar/Thronton and Spezza isn't exactly that player.

He's soft, let's just say that

I think you are right, but I think based on the market for Spezza a lot of NHL GM's and scouts do not believe this is a player you bring into your team to build a winner with - it's not like we got anything close to what the Sabers got for vanek or what the fan base tbhought we would get - not a huge lineup to add Spezza to your team.

Spezza is a good player but he is not considered a reliable player, good PP player and good teammate but I think a lot of teams (especially in the west) are looking for centers that can play hard 2-way hockey against Toewes/Kopitar/Thronton and Spezza isn't exactly that player.

He's soft, let's just say that
- tuna99

Yeah, you're right, he's pretty soft. In his current spot, with Dallas, I don't think he'll be asked to draw tough defensive assignments, or be matched against top lines... I think he'll score a hell of a lot more than Legwand will.

Didn't look like a pp game player last year, but if he returns to near that level in Dallas they probably won't mind he's soft.

Yeah, you're right, he's pretty soft. In his current spot, with Dallas, I don't think he'll be asked to draw tough defensive assignments, or be matched against top lines... I think he'll score a hell of a lot more than Legwand will.

Didn't look like a pp game player last year, but if he returns to near that level in Dallas they probably won't mind he's soft.
- Mr_Clean

and we all know that the easier assignments, likely leading to increased points, will bring all the yahoo's out, saying that ottawa got hosed and were idiots for trading him.....never once acknowledging that he would have never had that role and those matchups had he stayed in ottawa.

and we all know that the easier assignments, likely leading to increased points, will bring all the yahoo's out, saying that ottawa got hosed and were idiots for trading him.....never once acknowledging that he would have never had that role and those matchups had he stayed in ottawa.
- sensarmy_11

But wait, wasn't he getting the easier assignments in Ottawa?

*saddles up ostrich*


Be there soon, buddy!
- Mr_Clean

username Guile isn't invited to our Ostrich powered saltless breakfeast

But wait, wasn't he getting the easier assignments in Ottawa?
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

he was for a good chunk of the year.....however when ryan went down, and hemsky arrived, then QoC shifted into spezza's favour.

so for about 70% of the year, he was facing easier competition.....5v5

that beign said, he was still on the #1pp unit....he'll undoubtedly be on teh #2 unit in dallas, which imo will have a significant impact on his pp point totals, in a positive way.

You think they make a trade for a #1/#2 C?

Anyone hear anything about reports ryan turned down a 7 year 49mil contract?

It just seems wrong to say this, as it straight-up implies Legwand > Spezza. Call me crazy, but I don't think that there is a team in this league that would trade Spezza for Legwand, straight-up.
- Mr_Clean

You're right - but at the same time, if the question is how to replace Spezza's offence from last year, you're basically talking about 25G/70Pts. Legwand scored 15G/50Pts in his own right last year, additional ice time for Ryan and Zibanejad should yield additional points, they've added Chiasson, and I don't think it's impossible for Michalek to chip in more than he did.

On the flip side, Spezza was also a -26 last year, and basically made any winger he played with into a colossal 'minus' player as well. Given that allowing fewer goals has been cited as more of a priority than trying to score as often as last year, I think there's an awful lot of GA to be saved by improving on things like team speed, and getting better defensive play out of all four lines.

As such, I think the Senators will probably score fewer goals than last year, but could very well be better off in spite of it. I wouldn't quite call it addition by subtraction - but there could very well be a net benefit to replacing Spezza and his minutes with some of the players they now have on hand.

Anyone hear anything about reports ryan turned down a 7 year 49mil contract?
- david22

yeah...

http://prohockeytalk.nbcs...ens-seven-year-49m-offer/

yeah...
http://prohockeytalk.nbcs...ens-seven-year-49m-offer/
- Raven33

I'm just glad to hear the team made a serious, major-league offer - as opposed to the low-ball crap they were pulling earlier in the year with players like Hemsky. That said, Ryan's agent obviously knows exactly how big a pay-off there could be for him next off-season, and the relative weakness of the 2015 UFA market is probably one of the biggest things working against the Senators right now.

Ryan has also apparently cited concerns with his ice time last year, and I think that's something the team will have to prove they're will to give him in the first part of the season. Now, I really have no idea why the team wouldn't be playing the hell out of the Turris-Ryan line this year anyways... but I guess we'll see how things go in training camp.

You're right - but at the same time, if the question is how to replace Spezza's offence from last year, you're basically talking about 25G/70Pts. Legwand scored 15G/50Pts in his own right last year, additional ice time for Ryan and Zibanejad should yield additional points, they've added Chiasson, and I don't think it's impossible for Michalek to chip in more than he did.

On the flip side, Spezza was also a -26 last year, and basically made any winger he played with into a colossal 'minus' player as well. Given that allowing fewer goals has been cited as more of a priority than trying to score as often as last year, I think there's an awful lot of GA to be saved by improving on things like team speed, and getting better defensive play out of all four lines.

As such, I think the Senators will probably score fewer goals than last year, but could very well be better off in spite of it. I wouldn't quite call it addition by subtraction - but there could very well be a net benefit to replacing Spezza and his minutes with some of the players they now have on hand.
- khawk

I think Ottawa benefits by removing Spezza in the longterm. I think it could do the same thing for the Senators as it did for the Bruins when they traded Thornton. However, let's not forget that it took the Bruins several years to become a legit team again after that trade. In the short term, the Sens will take a hit most likely. If last season proved anything it was that young players don't always take the next step as expected. Just look at Cowen and Lehner. It's way to optimistic and unfair to assume all of our young guys take a step forward all at the same time.

I'm just glad to hear the team made a serious, major-league offer - as opposed to the low-ball crap they were pulling earlier in the year with players like Hemsky. That said, Ryan's agent obviously knows exactly how big a pay-off there could be for him next off-season, and the relative weakness of the 2015 UFA market is probably one of the biggest things working against the Senators right now.

Ryan has also apparently cited concerns with his ice time last year, and I think that's something the team will have to prove they're will to give him in the first part of the season. Now, I really have no idea why the team wouldn't be playing the hell out of the Turris-Ryan line this year anyways... but I guess we'll see how things go in training camp.
- khawk

Ryan is negotiations are going exactly as expected. He wants a bigger role. He wants to be "the guy". To me that is great news. Shows he is competitive, wants to succeed here in Ottawa, and wants the spotlight. Ottawa has to offer more than money for him to stay. The organization is in a unique spot where we can easily give him a leadership role along with the pay check he wants. I'd go as far as giving him the C, but I am sure just getting an A would be suffice. There should also be a commitment from Mclean to play him in more key situations. This should be a no brainer, but Mclean did have some odd player deployment patterns last year.

I think Ottawa benefits by removing Spezza in the longterm. I think it could do the same thing for the Senators as it did for the Bruins when they traded Thornton. However, let's not forget that it took the Bruins several years to become a legit team again after that trade. In the short term, the Sens will take a hit most likely. If last season proved anything it was that young players don't always take the next step as expected. Just look at Cowen and Lehner. It's way to optimistic and unfair to assume all of our young guys take a step forward all at the same time.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

But was it losing Thornton's offense that was the real problem for the Bruins? Savard had 96pts in the season after the trade, but they gave up the 2nd most goals in the NHL that year, and by the end of that season had burned through their 2nd coach in as many years. It seems to me that adding Chara and stabilizing the coaching had a whole lot more to do with the Bruins becoming legit than replacing Thornton did... case in point, the year they did those things, they actually scored 7 fewer goals but dropped their GA by 67 goals... which supports the point that improving on Spezza's -26 could be just as important as trying to replace his 25 goals.

That said, I agree that it's unlikely that all of the young kids will take a step forward together - but that's why it's so important that the improvement come from the likes of Ryan, Legwand, Turris, and Michalek just as much as it does from Zibanejad and Chiasson. But to be honest, I think the forwards are in pretty good shape this year, even if tasked with compensating for Spezza - it's the defence that really has me worried, especially if they are serious about a possible Methot trade.

But was it losing Thornton's offense that was the real problem for the Bruins? Savard had 96pts in the season after the trade, but they gave up the 2nd most goals in the NHL that year, and by the end of that season had burned through their 2nd coach in as many years. It seems to me that adding Chara and stabilizing the coaching had a whole lot more to do with the Bruins becoming legit than replacing Thornton did... case in point, the year they did those things, they actually scored 7 fewer goals but dropped their GA by 67 goals... which supports the point that improving on Spezza's -26 could be just as important as trying to replace his 25 goals.

That said, I agree that it's unlikely that all of the young kids will take a step forward together - but that's why it's so important that the improvement come from the likes of Ryan, Legwand, Turris, and Michalek just as much as it does from Zibanejad and Chiasson. But to be honest, I think the forwards are in pretty good shape this year, even if tasked with compensating for Spezza - it's the defence that really has me worried, especially if they are serious about a possible Methot trade.
- khawk

I want to see how long it will take BM to figure out that this team's defense is probably one of the worst in the league. If Melnyk wants the Senators to make the Playoffs, he just have to spend 5-7mil/year for a legit top-2 that will support Karlsson; preferably a Swede.

I want to see how long it will take BM to figure out that this team's defense is probably one of the worst in the league. If Melnyk wants the Senators to make the Playoffs, he just have to spend 5-7mil/year for a legit top-2 that will support Karlsson; preferably a Swede.
- TheCalSen

given what's happened today, they're probably on the verge of trading methot, so it's likely about to get worse.

that being said, trading him is preferable to overpaying him on a longterm deal. he's looking for the same deal that orpik got, which is ridiculous for a guy who, realistically, is a 2nd pairing d-man

given what's happened today, they're probably on the verge of trading methot, so it's likely about to get worse.

that being said, trading him is preferable to overpaying him on a longterm deal. he's looking for the same deal that orpik got, which is ridiculous for a guy who, realistically, is a 2nd pairing d-man
- sensarmy_11

^agree, it would be foolish to give him 5mil AAV over 5years. I'm assuming if they trade him it would be for a pick+; a 2nd round pick wouldn't be too shabby.
In regards to Ryan, I think giving him a long-term deal is also more negative than positive in the future. If it was up to me, I'd offer him a 3 year deal max at a 7mil AAV. Worse case scenario, we have a shot at a franchise player in McDavid. How funny would it be if he turned out to be a flop like Daigle.

^agree, it would be foolish to give him 5mil AAV over 5years. I'm assuming if they trade him it would be for a pick+; a 2nd round pick wouldn't be too shabby.
In regards to Ryan, I think giving him a long-term deal is also more negative than positive in the future. If it was up to me, I'd offer him a 3 year deal max at a 7mil AAV. Worse case scenario, we have a shot at a franchise player in McDavid. How funny would it be if he turned out to be a flop like Daigle.
- TheCalSen

If by 'funny', you mean 'morale-crushing', then yes

But was it losing Thornton's offense that was the real problem for the Bruins? Savard had 96pts in the season after the trade, but they gave up the 2nd most goals in the NHL that year, and by the end of that season had burned through their 2nd coach in as many years. It seems to me that adding Chara and stabilizing the coaching had a whole lot more to do with the Bruins becoming legit than replacing Thornton did... case in point, the year they did those things, they actually scored 7 fewer goals but dropped their GA by 67 goals... which supports the point that improving on Spezza's -26 could be just as important as trying to replace his 25 goals.

That said, I agree that it's unlikely that all of the young kids will take a step forward together - but that's why it's so important that the improvement come from the likes of Ryan, Legwand, Turris, and Michalek just as much as it does from Zibanejad and Chiasson. But to be honest, I think the forwards are in pretty good shape this year, even if tasked with compensating for Spezza - it's the defence that really has me worried, especially if they are serious about a possible Methot trade.
- khawk

I think you're missing the point. Moving Thornton allowed the Bruins to build a team they wanted several years after. Do they sign Chara to a big contract if they had Thortons heavy contract? Unlikely. Moving Spezza now gives us the same leeway down the road to address specific needs. That's what the Thornton trade did and that's what should happen with the Spezza trade. Both teams will loose out in the short term, but should be better in the longterm. That's my spin on the trade. People seem to think it's a trade that helps us now. Which it won't with this young team. It will help us several years down the road. Perhaps having room to sign the next Chara type defensman to put us over the top.

^agree, it would be foolish to give him 5mil AAV over 5years. I'm assuming if they trade him it would be for a pick+; a 2nd round pick wouldn't be too shabby.
In regards to Ryan, I think giving him a long-term deal is also more negative than positive in the future. If it was up to me, I'd offer him a 3 year deal max at a 7mil AAV. Worse case scenario, we have a shot at a franchise player in McDavid. How funny would it be if he turned out to be a flop like Daigle.
- TheCalSen

come on now, that's ridiculous.

he's a 27 year old, legit 30 goal man..........he EASILY gets 7 years 7+ mil. if you're signing him for 3 years, then the AAV would have to be nearly 10

Ryan deserves (based on market value), and will likely get a deal in the 7 year 50 mil range. give or take (likely give) a couple of million

7 x 7.5 is what i think he will eventually sign for

I want to see how long it will take BM to figure out that this team's defense is probably one of the worst in the league. If Melnyk wants the Senators to make the Playoffs, he just have to spend 5-7mil/year for a legit top-2 that will support Karlsson; preferably a Swede.
- TheCalSen

I wonder if the success of Karlsson hasn't gone to their heads a bit... they're now expecting guys like Cowen, Wiercioch, and Ceci to just 'take over' major roles on the blue line, but combined they have fewer games played than Karlsson does, and more than 830 fewer games played than Phillips (in case people were wondering why he's still an important part of the team).

No wonder Methot's agent is asking for top dollar - he knows a desperate team when he sees one, even if they don't know it themselves. He also knows that it's a lot easier to just overpay someone a bit then it is to go out and actually acquire a solid top-4 defenceman... mostly because teams rarely have one to spare, or are willing to just give them away.

come on now, that's ridiculous.

he's a 27 year old, legit 30 goal man..........he EASILY gets 7 years 7+ mil. if you're signing him for 3 years, then the AAV would have to be nearly 10

Ryan deserves (based on market value), and will likely get a deal in the 7 year 50 mil range. give or take (likely give) a couple of million

7 x 7.5 is what i think he will eventually sign for
- sensarmy_11

It all depends how Maclean plays his cards. Greening-Smith-Neil shouldn't be a line, they have no chemistry. I like Smith and I think if the team is ready to give Lazar and Puempel upgrades then they could bode well playing wing for him. I know most of you hate Greening and want him gone, I'm not going to lie I was saying get a 7th for him, anything. But I want to give him another shot. Play him on a wing with Legwand and Chiasson, if he doesn't produce trade him.

I wonder if the success of Karlsson hasn't gone to their heads a bit... they're now expecting guys like Cowen, Wiercioch, and Ceci to just 'take over' major roles on the blue line, but combined they have fewer games played than Karlsson does, and more than 830 fewer games played than Phillips (in case people were wondering why he's still an important part of the team).

No wonder Methot's agent is asking for top dollar - he knows a desperate team when he sees one, even if they don't know it themselves. He also knows that it's a lot easier to just overpay someone a bit then it is to go out and actually acquire a solid top-4 defenceman... mostly because teams rarely have one to spare, or are willing to just give them away.
- khawk

the simple fact is that methot is not worth 5.5 mil. people are looking at him through the same "goggles" they viewed kuba. that is, he was playing alongside one of the best d-men in the entire league, and as a result appeared to be better than he actually was.

if ottawa was to pair methot with ANYONE on this team not named karlsson, and people would see that he was AT BEST an average #3 or good #4 d-man.

if anything, i hope they do trade him, which means they'd have no choice but to hold on to wiercioch (who i'm convinced is better than methot anyways, but seemed to be the odd man out). methot would fetch a solid return, a top 4 dman making under 4 mil, lots of teams would offer a relatively solid return for him.