Honestly I forgot about Karlsson, but what makes a great defensemen or better yet, shouldn't the best defensemen on any team be used for every situation? Because looking at Karlsson TOI numbers during his Norris winning year and he wasn't the best defenseman, according to the numbers.
- Devils9503

karlsson DOMINATED at 5v5, and was in another galaxy on the PP......why waste 2-3 minutes of his ice time having him block shots on the PK?

and he actually played 1:30 per game on the pk this year, and looked pretty good. while it isn't the 3:00 minutes that most shutdown guys play, it's still a lot for a smaller puckmover.....most of the elite "all around" guys like hedman, weber, keith, etc only play 2:00-2:30 on the PK, so he's not far off.

if you take karlsson out of the equation, then i agree that andy greene is the next best d-man on either team though, followed by methot

karlsson DOMINATED at 5v5, and was in another galaxy on the PP......why waste 2-3 minutes of his ice time having him block shots on the PK?

and he actually played 1:30 per game on the pk this year, and looked pretty good. while it isn't the 3:00 minutes that most shutdown guys play, it's still a lot for a smaller puckmover.....most of the elite "all around" guys like hedman, weber, keith, etc only play 2:00-2:30 on the PK, so he's not far off.

if you take karlsson out of the equation, then i agree that andy greene is the next best d-man on either team though, followed by methot
- sensarmy_11

When I looked it up I was actually surprised that Karlsson got 50 points 5v5 and 28 on the PP. I'm just talking about his Norris year, not last year, because if he's gonna be voted the best defenseman than his numbers should show it. That year he only had 45:28 TOI/SH during 81 games, that's 0:33 seconds per game. Karlsson was 167th in SH/TOI. To me they have to be the best defenseman, not the best offensive defenseman, the best defenseman meaning he should be called upon to play in every situation. And how is trying to help your team kill penalties a waste of time? He doesn't have to block shots, just get in position and stop the opposition.

When I looked it up I was actually surprised that Karlsson got 50 points 5v5 and 28 on the PP. I'm just talking about his Norris year, not last year, because if he's gonna be voted the best defenseman than his numbers should show it. That year he only had 45:28 TOI/SH during 81 games, that's 0:33 seconds per game. Karlsson was 167th in SH/TOI. To me they have to be the best defenseman, not the best offensive defenseman, the best defenseman meaning he should be called upon to play in every situation. And how is trying to help your team kill penalties a waste of time? He doesn't have to block shots, just get in position and stop the opposition.
- Devils9503

i never said it was a waste of time......i was saying that it was a coaching decision to keep him playing 5v5 and on the PP, and giving the PK minutes to cowen, phillips, kuba, etc.

i never said it was a waste of time......i was saying that it was a coaching decision to keep him playing 5v5 and on the PP, and giving the PK minutes to cowen, phillips, kuba, etc.
- sensarmy_11

karlsson DOMINATED at 5v5, and was in another galaxy on the PP......why waste 2-3 minutes of his ice time having him block shots on the PK?

That was the second thing you said. But that's what I mean by him winning the Norris,, if he didn't play more important minutes, SH being more important than PP, than Chara or Weber who were nominated, than how was he better defenseman that year. The Norris has pretty much become what ever defenseman has the most points than it's given to him.

Edit: He also had 84 giveaways the 4th most, Chara 68 and Weber 46.

i'm sorry, but anyone who suggests that andy greene is better then erik karlsson has absolutely zero credibility in anything he says about hockey
- sensarmy_11

Karlsson has great offensive talent but when it comes to playing defense he might as well not be out there. There isn't a player in the league that leaves his teammates out to dry more than him.

I finally found out how to find F/O% for each player for teams on NHL.com and I was surprised that Zubrus' % was 50.9 in 424 taken. Earlier I said about trading for Stafford, he is supposedly available and someone said that we don't need a another scrap player even though he would of been tied for 6th on the team in points and 5th among forwards. I said that he would be a good third line center and from finding the stats I found out that his F/O % was 53.8 in 70 games. That is with 197 faceoffs taken.

Edit:Ruutu was a little under 50%, 49.4.

karlsson DOMINATED at 5v5, and was in another galaxy on the PP......why waste 2-3 minutes of his ice time having him block shots on the PK?

That was the second thing you said. But that's what I mean by him winning the Norris,, if he didn't play more important minutes, SH being more important than PP, than Chara or Weber who were nominated, than how was he better defenseman that year. The Norris has pretty much become what ever defenseman has the most points than it's given to him.

Edit: He also had 84 giveaways the 4th most, Chara 68 and Weber 46.
- Devils9503

My problem with the Norris is that they keep flipflopping with it. Like how can you give it to Karlsson that year and then not give it to Green the year he scored 30?

Karlsson has great offensive talent but when it comes to playing defense he might as well not be out there. There isn't a player in the league that leaves his teammates out to dry more than him.
- shvingter88

so i'm assuming you're just one of those people who read what leaf fans say about him, and have seen him play only once or twice.

karlsson haters are the best. they ignore the ridiculous possession numbers, the fact that he's at or near the top of the league in takeaways every year. he has a lot of giveaways, but so does every high end offensive player.

people say he's terrible defensively because they just assume someone so good at offense HAS to be terrible defensively....but really, you have no clue

My problem with the Norris is that they keep flipflopping with it. Like how can you give it to Karlsson that year and then not give it to Green the year he scored 30?
- bobert836

how do they flip flop? the norris winner is ALWAYS one of the top 2-3 point producing d-men in the league.

the year karlsson won it, he was light years ahead of the next highest scoring d-man.....25 or 30 pts up on the #2 guy.

mike green led in points 2 years in a row, but never by more than 7 or 8 pts......not the same kind of domination.

My problem with the Norris is that they keep flipflopping with it. Like how can you give it to Karlsson that year and then not give it to Green the year he scored 30?
- bobert836

IDK, Chara won that year and he had 20 less points, was a +1 less than Green. Chara also had 28 more PIM. However, Chara had a little over 100 SH/TOI minutes.

how do they flip flop? the norris winner is ALWAYS one of the top 2-3 point producing d-men in the league.

the year karlsson won it, he was light years ahead of the next highest scoring d-man.....25 or 30 pts up on the #2 guy.

mike green led in points 2 years in a row, but never by more than 7 or 8 pts......not the same kind of domination.
- sensarmy_11

Green had 9 more pts than the next guy and 14 and 23(winner 12th in scoring not top 2-3) more than the other finalists respectively also while only playing in 68 games

Green had 9 more pts than the next guy and 14 and 23(winner 12th in scoring not top 2-3) more than the other finalists respectively also while only playing in 68 games
- bobert836

fair enough....in fact, looking back at the numbers, it's ridiculous that he didn't win it. his stats were ridiculous.

31g, 73pts, +24, 90 hits, 110 bs, 2:30 pk mins/game

he absolutely should have won the norris that year.

so i'm assuming you're just one of those people who read what leaf fans say about him, and have seen him play only once or twice.

karlsson haters are the best. they ignore the ridiculous possession numbers, the fact that he's at or near the top of the league in takeaways every year. he has a lot of giveaways, but so does every high end offensive player.

people say he's terrible defensively because they just assume someone so good at offense HAS to be terrible defensively....but really, you have no clue
- sensarmy_11

Um no I watch him play quite a lot. He's hard to miss watching the sens play because he's the best player on the team. I see him jump up into the play when he has absolutely no business doing so and it can hurt the team.

Having Stafford in NJ is more of the same.

He's lost among the shuffle of the abundance of similar players (bottom 6, one-dimensional role players) on this roster.

Do you like mediocrity? Because that's what I imagine everytime someone mentions getting a player similar to a handful of players NJ already has.

Enough with settling for mediocrity & dumpster dive signings.

Real moves for legit top 6 FWs who can put the puck in the net will need to be made before this team is a contender again.

They most likely will improve slightly with Cory in net, but just because Cory is a solid young goalie & they have interesting young D prospects (who are still prospects mid you, let's not crown them all Norris contenders yet, the D could still end up 1-2 key players short if they all don't develop into studs like you all assume) doesn't mean they can stack poop upon poop at FW & sign 9+ guys who are all 3rd-4th liners on a contender & cross your fingers they all have career years or defy age & keep producing beyond their years.

Let's get real & hope for something more. Why are NJ fans content with signing laughable players no contender is thinking about signing & thinking it's going to put NJ into the discussion?

Having Stafford in NJ is more of the same.

He's lost among the shuffle of the abundance of similar players (bottom 6, one-dimensional role players) on this roster.

Do you like mediocrity? Because that's what I imagine everytime someone mentions getting a player similar to a handful of players NJ already has.

Enough with settling for mediocrity & dumpster dive signings.

Real moves for legit top 6 FWs who can put the puck in the net will need to be made before this team is a contender again.

They most likely will improve slightly with Cory in net, but just because Cory is a solid young goalie & they have interesting young D prospects (who are still prospects mid you, let's not crown them all Norris contenders yet, the D could still end up 1-2 key players short if they all don't develop into studs like you all assume) doesn't mean they can stack poop upon poop at FW & sign 9+ guys who are all 3rd-4th liners on a contender & cross your fingers they all have career years or defy age & keep producing beyond their years.

Let's get real & hope for something more. Why are NJ fans content with signing laughable players no contender is thinking about signing & thinking it's going to put NJ into the discussion?


- FLdevilsFAN

Would you prefer that they had signed no one? All the top players that might have been out there went to the exact team that everyone and their mothers knew they were going to

how do they flip flop? the norris winner is ALWAYS one of the top 2-3 point producing d-men in the league.

the year karlsson won it, he was light years ahead of the next highest scoring d-man.....25 or 30 pts up on the #2 guy.

mike green led in points 2 years in a row, but never by more than 7 or 8 pts......not the same kind of domination.
- sensarmy_11

2008-2009 (1st, 12th, 3rd in scoring)
Green 68GP, 31G, 42A, 73P, +24, 68PIM, 167 SH/TOI
Won-Chara 80GP, 19G, 31A, 50P, +23, 95PIM, 268 SH/TOI
Lidstrom 78GP, 16G, 43A, 59P, +31, 30PIM, 269 SH/TOI

2009-2010 (1st, 2nd, 3rd in scoring)
Green 75 GP, 19G, 57A, 76P, +39, 54PIM, 161 SH/TOI
Doughty 82 GP, 16G, 43A, 59P, +20, 54PIM, 165 SH/TOI
Won-Keith 82GP, 14G, 55A, 69P, +21, 51PIM, 244 SH/TOI

2011-2012 (1st, 3rd, 5th in scoring)
Won-Karlsson 81GP, 19G, 59A, 78P, +16, 42PIM, 45 SH/TOI
Chara 79GP, 12G, 40A, 52P, +33, 86PIM, 214 SH/TOI
Weber 78GP, 19G, 30A, 49P, +21, 46PIM, 176 SH/TOI

I thought this might help show the "flip-flop."

2009
Chara won, but had less points than Green, less +/- than Lidstrom, and more PIM, SH/TOI was close. Lidstrom should of won this because of the difference in PIM between him and Chara.

2010
Keith won, but had less points and +/-. HAd a huge advantage in SH/TOI.
SH/TOI probably made a huge role in him winning this.

2012
Karlsson won, he had the most points, a worse +/- by double, but a huge gap in SH/TOI.

Would you prefer that they had signed no one? All the top players that might have been out there went to the exact team that everyone and their mothers knew they were going to
- bobert836

I understand that but you don't just keep stacking poopty players on top of more.

You end up with what we have now, too many FWs period, too many to fill bottom 6 roles so now you have to make moves and you'll get minimal value for them since everyone knows your hand.

Don't sign guys just to sign them. Let kids okay & develop. Something NJ as an organization fails at.

I'd rather let some younger players olay, grow, and learn than keep signing aging pieces of poop who repeatedly come with a built in excuse of "needing a change of scenery".

Again, why be satisfied with or apologetic towards mediocrity.

I know a rebuild is upon us, no matter how hard Lou may fight. But you can never build & keep a decent draft and organizational reputation when you don't play and develop consistent talent. If your draft picks suck that much that you have to repeatedly sign over the hill has-beens, then that says something about what needs to be addressed within the organization as well.

Having Stafford in NJ is more of the same.

He's lost among the shuffle of the abundance of similar players (bottom 6, one-dimensional role players) on this roster.

Do you like mediocrity? Because that's what I imagine everytime someone mentions getting a player similar to a handful of players NJ already has.

Enough with settling for mediocrity & dumpster dive signings.

Real moves for legit top 6 FWs who can put the puck in the net will need to be made before this team is a contender again.

They most likely will improve slightly with Cory in net, but just because Cory is a solid young goalie & they have interesting young D prospects (who are still prospects mid you, let's not crown them all Norris contenders yet, the D could still end up 1-2 key players short if they all don't develop into studs like you all assume) doesn't mean they can stack poop upon poop at FW & sign 9+ guys who are all 3rd-4th liners on a contender & cross your fingers they all have career years or defy age & keep producing beyond their years.

Let's get real & hope for something more. Why are NJ fans content with signing laughable players no contender is thinking about signing & thinking it's going to put NJ into the discussion?


- FLdevilsFAN

Alright than what do you suggest? You keep saying we need top 6 Fws that can score well tell me how we would get them without selling off our prospects? The only players with any value that would bring back us top 6 guys are Henrique, Greene, Corey, and maybe Zajac. That doesn't include Larsson, Gelinas, or Merrill, which anyone of them would have to be in a package with other players or picks. Stanley cup winning teams aren't built in one year.

LA made trades, drafted players, and signed free agents that helped them win in 2012.

Traded for Stoll, Greene, and Richardson in 2008
Traded for Williams in 2009
Traded for Fraser, Richards and Penner in 2011
Traded for Carter in 2012

Drafted Clifford, Nolan, Doughty, Voynov, Martinez, King, Lewis, Bernier, Kopitar, Quick, Brown

Signed Mitchell in 2010
Signed Scuderi in 2009
Signed Gagne in 2011

You have no idea what that "mediocre" player will turn out to be for a team. Justin Williams was 27 when he was traded after have two years being injured, did any think he would be the 2014 MVP, probably not at the time. Stafford is 28 and fills a need at center position for us, he had a 53% in F/O, seeing as we are the worse team in faceoffs EVERY year.

Unfortunately we haven't had the best drafting recording, only up until recently, which also helps getting "top 6FWs" like the Richards and Carters, in this case with the kings.

The above could be done with Chicago, Boston and other teams that have won cups. YOU NEED "MEDIOCRE" PLAYERS TO FILL ROLES ON YOUR TEAM TO WIN WHEN THE TIME COMES.

I understand that but you don't just keep stacking poopty players on top of more.

You end up with what we have now, too many FWs period, too many to fill bottom 6 roles so now you have to make moves and you'll get minimal value for them since everyone knows your hand.

Don't sign guys just to sign them. Let kids okay & develop. Something NJ as an organization fails at.

I'd rather let some younger players olay, grow, and learn than keep signing aging pieces of poop who repeatedly come with a built in excuse of "needing a change of scenery".

Again, why be satisfied with or apologetic towards mediocrity.

I know a rebuild is upon us, no matter how hard Lou may fight. But you can never build & keep a decent draft and organizational reputation when you don't play and develop consistent talent. If your draft picks suck that much that you have to repeatedly sign over the hill has-beens, then that says something about what needs to be addressed within the organization as well.
- FLdevilsFAN

First point, they are getting their young guys to grow in Boucher and MAtteau, Bell, Black, Johnson are all developing. Will they amount to anything? Who knows, but they are doing that now. However, there are people on here that want to give Matteau or Boucher a roster spot just because they have had one year in Albany. Let them develop. Not every player you draft is not gonna be a top 3/6 FW. Clifford on LA was a first round pick and he's on the fourth line, under King, so there is a opportunity to get a little higher in the lineup, but he hasn't yet.

We have had too many guys since the last lockout in 2005 that have left for nothing. Neidermayer, Raflaski, Martin, Parise, Clarkson, Gionta, Gomez, Fayne. Most of them have left in the last 7-8 seasons. Havlat and Jagr might be gone next year and than you try and see if Boucher, who should be switched back to RW he played that in Sarnia, and Bell I think is now a RW next summer. After next year Zubrus, Ruutu, Elias, Gionta will be free agents and than see if Black, Johnson, Thomson could fit a "role." I think Thomson and Johnson could be fourth line guys in two-three years. And Black if he is really healthy now, maybe in 2-3 years try him on the third line. Matteau will probably replace Clowe in 2-3 years. That's how I look at it with the guys we have. If we can continue to draft players that will contribute to the Devils going forward than thats great.

Second bold point, what overhill players? Salvador, Zubrus, Elias, JAgr and Zid are probably the only players in my mind, every other player is in their earlier 30s, not exactly over the hill. Brunner 28, Ryder, 33, Clowe, 30, Cam, 32. Those are the ages when we signed themDoesn't matter anyway because in the next two years we'll be have a youth movement with some of our Albany guys coming up IMO, not just on Defense either.

Karlsson has great offensive talent but when it comes to playing defense he might as well not be out there. There isn't a player in the league that leaves his teammates out to dry more than him.
- shvingter88

Karlsson isn't exactly an elite shutdown defenseman but he gets a lot more poop for being bad defensively than he deserves. His speed and skating are huge assets to him in terms of playing in his own zone. He's actually very serviceable defensively...above average for sure.

First point, they are getting their young guys to grow in Boucher and MAtteau, Bell, Black, Johnson are all developing. Will they amount to anything? Who knows, but they are doing that now. However, there are people on here that want to give Matteau or Boucher a roster spot just because they have had one year in Albany. Let them develop. Not every player you draft is not gonna be a top 3/6 FW. Clifford on LA was a first round pick and he's on the fourth line, under King, so there is a opportunity to get a little higher in the lineup, but he hasn't yet.

We have had too many guys since the last lockout in 2005 that have left for nothing. Neidermayer, Raflaski, Martin, Parise, Clarkson, Gionta, Gomez, Fayne. Most of them have left in the last 7-8 seasons. Havlat and Jagr might be gone next year and than you try and see if Boucher, who should be switched back to RW he played that in Sarnia, and Bell I think is now a RW next summer. After next year Zubrus, Ruutu, Elias, Gionta will be free agents and than see if Black, Johnson, Thomson could fit a "role." I think Thomson and Johnson could be fourth line guys in two-three years. And Black if he is really healthy now, maybe in 2-3 years try him on the third line. Matteau will probably replace Clowe in 2-3 years. That's how I look at it with the guys we have. If we can continue to draft players that will contribute to the Devils going forward than thats great.

Second bold point, what overhill players? Salvador, Zubrus, Elias, JAgr and Zid are probably the only players in my mind, every other player is in their earlier 30s, not exactly over the hill. Brunner 28, Ryder, 33, Clowe, 30, Cam, 32. Those are the ages when we signed themDoesn't matter anyway because in the next two years we'll be have a youth movement with some of our Albany guys coming up IMO, not just on Defense either.
- Devils9503

Clowe is most certainly over the hill. As is Ryder. Ruutu's best days are behind him...so are Brunner's, Havlat's, and Cammalleri's.

Clowe is most certainly over the hill. As is Ryder. Ruutu's best days are behind him...so are Brunner's, Havlat's, and Cammalleri's.
- rangerdanger94

Yeah o k... Look at Jagr last year... Devils don't need to change anything! No drama this year in goal plus a FEW more goals here and there, we will be ahead of NYR... They have good years to come still, you eat watch. You had one good year in the past 20 and already talking smack?

Yeah o k... Look at Jagr last year... Devils don't need to change anything! No drama this year in goal plus a FEW more goals here and there, we will be ahead of NYR... They have good years to come still, you eat watch. You had one good year in the past 20 and already talking smack?
- diofan34

1 good year in the past 20? In the past 3 years, we've had 1 SCF appearance, 1 ECF appearance, and 1 second round exit. Not exactly winning a Cup but the Rangers have won the most playoff series the past 3 years than any other professional sports team besides the LA Kings and the Miami Heat.

Your coach and goaltending will give you a chance every night to compete. All I was saying is that guys like Jagr, Cammy, Zubrus, Havlat, Brunner, Clowe, Ruutu, etc. aren't going to be putting up career highs. Jagr had a good season last year...for a 41 year old. Still NOWHERE near his career high. It's a safe bet to say that none of the guys listed in this post will be posting career highs this upcoming season or any season after.

Your coach and goaltending will give you a chance every night to compete.
- rangerdanger94

I think the rangers and penguins won't be as good this year, in Lou of Tampa, of course Boston, Montreal & unfortunately maybe Columbus. I think Jersey will do a bit better this season, which is all we needed last year, but we'll be competing for a spot with NYR, NYI and Philly... But we''re always better off under dogs anyways. Ruutu and Brunner should do way better this year, hopefully career highs but not necessarily saying that much. I think Jersey has a great mix age wise, plenty of vets with experience to bring up the youngsters who just need a little guidance, one way or another. I think the Rangers got lucky at the end of last season, where a few other East Coast teams didn't, this year should be a lot tighter

I think the questionable moves started even before Nill left...they started after Bowman left and got worst as Yzerman left and then finally Nill. Now if you question Holland's move some other Wings fans just reply about his past record and accomplishments, that he knows more than we do or that we are not really fans of the team.
- dcz28

The Dan Cleary signing was totally baffling to me! I think he told Cleary that he would get another contract promised to him after he agreed to a deal with Philly and then changed his mind and signed in Detroit. Holland kept his word and also had his reputation tarnished, lol.