Andy would be the best defense on either team and I understand what your getting at, but to get something you need to give up something. And for a team like the Sens who don't spend much, maybe they want to see what Brunner could do in their system before maybe trying to sign him away from other teams that might call. Also, I looked at some trade and looking at the Sens they traded Gonchar, who I think at the time was still at least a top 4 defender for a 6th and they traded Foligno, a third liner, for Methot. I think it just depends what they Sens feel they could get or what they want in return vs. what they are offered. You just never know what a player is worth because some players who should get you a big return don't and vice versa.
- Devils9503

Nick Foligno is a gritty, fairly well-rounded player who has been on a 40 point pace each of the last three seasons... An established top-6 forward on Columbus. If you can honestly say that Brunner is that good, then by all means it's a fair deal

Those guys also didn't play in the nhl at 18 jones was the only guy you mentioned who did. I really think they have wronged Larsson I don't blame him for where he is at that to me is all on the coaching staff and Lou who couldn't move a guy last year and wouldn't send a guy down other then Gelinas who had 29 points in 60 I would say for a team who lacked scoring he was the last player we could afford to send down and then we made our worst defense man captain that's just poor decision making by Lou and Pete
- blizzzard

Actaully, at the time we resigned Sal and gave him the C he had that great year in the regular season and in the playoffs. It was a good move at the time, but his play has regressed dramatically over the last two years.

I'm probably the wrong person to ask that - a decent young player sorta caught up in the numbers game in Ottawa. People talk about him as a potential 2nd liner, I see the occasional Binghampton game and I am not sure about that.

Anything else would be a copy/paste of what an actual prospect writer says
- Mr_Clean

So he could be had cheap and would be a decent pick up for a team who lacked offensive prospects ?

Wish we wouldve kept Fayne, but now I hope Jersey doesn't trade again unless it's to get rid of Cammarelli lol but he'll do

Nick Foligno is a gritty, fairly well-rounded player who has been on a 40 point pace each of the last three seasons... An established top-6 forward on Columbus. If you can honestly say that Brunner is that good, then by all means it's a fair deal
- Mr_Clean

Well that's the thing, on our team he would be a bottom six guy because of what we brought in in Cam and Havlat and because we are more of a forechecking team that relies on the board battles something Brunner doesn't do. But on a team like Ott I think he is a top 6 guy because you guys are more open to being offensive.

So he could be had cheap and would be a decent pick up for a team who lacked offensive prospects ?
- blizzzard

Unless he really impresses at camp (i.e., somehow looks to be winning a roster spot in the early going), I think that'd probably be the case.

Although, some people seem to think T Murray is really high on Prince, which might drive up the price somewhat...

Well that's the thing, on our team he would be a bottom six guy because of what we brought in in Cam and Havlat and because we are more of a forechecking team that relies on the board battles something Brunner doesn't do. But on a team like Ott I think he is a top 6 guy because you guys are more open to being offensive.
- Devils9503

Yeah, I suppose.... I guess if Marty Havlat is taking your roster spot, you're not a very valuable asset in my books.

Actaully, at the time we resigned Sal and gave him the C he had that great year in the regular season and in the playoffs. It was a good move at the time, but his play has regressed dramatically over the last two years.
- Devils9503

He came second in scoring for defence in the play offs and scored more then he had ever in entire regular season that is exactly why you don't pay guys for one play off run look at penner and Bickel same thing he should of been resigned for 1-2 years not 3 he was never in a million years going to sniff that level of production again we are constantly paying old guys for what they have done even though they are likely to never hit those numbers again we pay them like they are I would much rather dish out money to a younger guy for their potential then dish out money to an older player who most would agree will only get worse basically you don't pay players over 35 for what they did or could do at 30 now we have this guy who should be the seventh man but we can't scratch because he is captain and it looks bad to strip guys unless your sj lol it's just a bad situation I personally would have gave him one year and you can likely search back if you want and find I did that at the time of the contract it's to long just like I will disagree when Elias contract is up and we give him three at five or six instead of two I do get the idea that you need to be loyal but this is a business and I wouldn't be risking cap room on players that age for that long of contract but I get bashed all the time so take it for what you will lol

I think greenes better and I also think that the possible step forward all our kids should take that we wouldn't need methot either way but that was a bad offer it's just methot is not a fit for us and the value isnt there for you guys I think a lot of people don't know just how good Gelinas and Merrill are because they weren't flashy first round picks. I also think people fail to take into account how good you actually have to be to be trusted with minutes on our back end if it where most teams these guys would have played three season already nj doesn't take it's defense lightly and yea you could argue that a lot of guys who have been on our defense have been bad players the thing is they play the system a guy like karlsson wouldn't have gotten the opportunity to explode onto the scene in nj like he did in Ottawa he would like be in only his second nhl season if he played for the devils because his defensive game just would not have been anywhere good enough to sniff the ice in jersey and that's not a diss on karlsson at all it's just how things are done here each team has a way of bringing up players and we do it our way whether a player might need to be brought up differently or not. I have had this discussion before that for some reason Lou thinks there is a blue print for bringing in prospects instead of developing them on their pace and towards each prospects needs each guy gets treated the same whether he was fourth over all or a seventh round pick
- blizzzard

I stopped reading your comment about Karlsson after you said " he would like be in only his second nhl season if he played for the devils".

so you're suggesting Karlsson would have only made the devils roster the year he stepped in & won the Norris Trophy (best overall defencemen in the NHL) 2 seasons ago. Okay bud, keep on dreaming that your teams system & defensive depth is that amazing

Yeah, I suppose.... I guess if Marty Havlat is taking your roster spot, you're not a very valuable asset in my books.
- Mr_Clean

I actually have some hope for him I think being in the east with less travel and not as physical teams he will have a healthier season now that's speculation on my part but it's what I'm going with and it has neve been a matter of talent but more stayig healthy if he some how stays healthy we have a productive player at 1.5 million there there is the whole Czech connection and him being buddies with Elias hopefully they help him get back on track but he could very easily play 20 games

Yeah, I suppose.... I guess if Marty Havlat is taking your roster spot, you're not a very valuable asset in my books.
- Mr_Clean

Not true, I see Havlat pretty much like Elias, but is always injured. He had 22 points in 48 games, that is almost a point every other game. I think he'll be fine in the east. I see Havlat with Elias all year if he isn't injured too much.

I stopped reading your comment about Karlsson after you said " he would like be in only his second nhl season if he played for the devils".

so you're suggesting Karlsson would have only made the devils roster the year he stepped in & won the Norris Trophy (best overall defencemen in the NHL) 2 seasons ago. Okay bud, keep on dreaming that your teams system & defensive depth is that amazing
- Erik6Karlsson5

Not really at all in fact karlsson is an amazing player and top five defender what I was saying that he never would of gotten the career he has had in Ottawa here he never would of developed the same and there for wouldn't be the power house he is because at the time he started in Ottawa his defensive game would not have been up to par with what Lou expects regardless of what he does offensively. We sent down Eric Gelinas and no I am not saying he is anywhere close to karlsson but he put up 29 points in 60 games in his first season and was still sent down because he is bad defensively he'll I'm not even saying it's the best choice I think it's stupid but what I am saying that is just the way things work in jersey it was nothing at all about knocking is all word talent and because you didn't read after that part you didn't read me say that I have argued this very subject before that Lou treats all players the same and that is if you don't play defense you don't play Lou lams does not care whatsoever what you do offensively if you are a train wreck in your end and that is because he is stubborn and does things his way

He came second in scoring for defence in the play offs and scored more then he had ever in entire regular season that is exactly why you don't pay guys for one play off run look at penner and Bickel same thing he should of been resigned for 1-2 years not 3 he was never in a million years going to sniff that level of production again we are constantly paying old guys for what they have done even though they are likely to never hit those numbers again we pay them like they are I would much rather dish out money to a younger guy for their potential then dish out money to an older player who most would agree will only get worse basically you don't pay players over 35 for what they did or could do at 30 now we have this guy who should be the seventh man but we can't scratch because he is captain and it looks bad to strip guys unless your sj lol it's just a bad situation I personally would have gave him one year and you can likely search back if you want and find I did that at the time of the contract it's to long just like I will disagree when Elias contract is up and we give him three at five or six instead of two I do get the idea that you need to be loyal but this is a business and I wouldn't be risking cap room on players that age for that long of contract but I get bashed all the time so take it for what you will lol
- blizzzard

Sal had a pretty damn good season in the regular season, not just playoffs. Three years was a little long, but it's done and one more year. As for Elias, to me the next two years, whether we have young like Boucher, Matteau or others like Black/Bell that could be working for roster spots, would determine how long to sign him. And also I think at some point it's just time to move on and give more responsibility to other guys who might be coming up, but at the same time not rushing guys to play in the NHL like others what to. As of right now I would probably let him walk two years from now. Also, you said about Methot not fitting in with us, I meant for 1 year and see whats happens if not than let him go.

Sal had a pretty damn good season in the regular season, not just playoffs. Three years was a little long, but it's done and one more year. As for Elias, to me the next two years, whether we have young like Boucher, Matteau or others like Black/Bell that could be working for roster spots, would determine how long to sign him. And also I think at some point it's just time to move on and give more responsibility to other guys who might be coming up, but at the same time not rushing guys to play in the NHL like others what to. As of right now I would probably let him walk two years from now. Also, you said about Methot not fitting in with us, I meant for 1 year and see whats happens if not than let him go.
- Devils9503

I agree with most of this but I am the type of person who hates watching assets diminish for nothing if I knew I wasn't going to be resigning Elias I would be moving him at that deadline for something and if I was Lou and we are looking to miss the play offs again I'm moving everyone with one year left at the deadline including jagr not adding some cheap crap player who will never help us close the gap to try and give the fans false hope that I tried to push for the play offs they might hate me at first but they will thank me later when they realize These guys didn't just retire and lose them for nothing we have lost way to many assets for nothing and it has hurt this franchise in a huge way I wouldn't be letting that happen anymore

Not really at all in fact karlsson is an amazing player and top five defender what I was saying that he never would of gotten the career he has had in Ottawa here he never would of developed the same and there for wouldn't be the power house he is because at the time he started in Ottawa his defensive game would not have been up to par with what Lou expects regardless of what he does offensively. We sent down Eric Gelinas and no I am not saying he is anywhere close to karlsson but he put up 29 points in 60 games in his first season and was still sent down because he is bad defensively he'll I'm not even saying it's the best choice I think it's stupid but what I am saying that is just the way things work in jersey it was nothing at all about knocking is all word talent and because you didn't read after that part you didn't read me say that I have argued this very subject before that Lou treats all players the same and that is if you don't play defense you don't play Lou lams does not care whatsoever what you do offensively if you are a train wreck in your end and that is because he is stubborn and does things his way
- blizzzard

holy poop there are these things called periods they're located somewhere on your keyboard hell you can even use commas

I agree with most of this but I am the type of person who hates watching assets diminish for nothing if I knew I wasn't going to be resigning Elias I would be moving him at that deadline for something and if I was Lou and we are looking to miss the play offs again I'm moving everyone with one year left at the deadline including jagr not adding some cheap crap player who will never help us close the gap to try and give the fans false hope that I tried to push for the play offs they might hate me at first but they will thank me later when they realize These guys didn't just retire and lose them for nothing we have lost way to many assets for nothing and it has hurt this franchise in a huge way I wouldn't be letting that happen anymore
- blizzzard

I'm right there with you, but you can't get rid of every guy with one year deals, well we could because next year those guys really wouldn't help us much anyway, Zubrus, Ruutu etc. But you have to look at it like this, only one team is gonna have a successful year. What I mean by that is not making the playoffs or going to the conference final and than losing, but winning the cup, only one team.

Not true, I see Havlat pretty much like Elias, but is always injured. He had 22 points in 48 games, that is almost a point every other game. I think he'll be fine in the east. I see Havlat with Elias all year if he isn't injured too much.
- Devils9503

Then I guess we should have signed Havlat for, I dunno, 2.5 million per year.

Better than having to trade our 2nd best defenseman (best defensively) for a slightly-worse version of Havlat and a salary dump.

Andy would be the best defense on either team and I understand what your getting at, but to get something you need to give up something. And for a team like the Sens who don't spend much, maybe they want to see what Brunner could do in their system before maybe trying to sign him away from other teams that might call. Also, I looked at some trade and looking at the Sens they traded Gonchar, who I think at the time was still at least a top 4 defender for a 6th and they traded Foligno, a third liner, for Methot. I think it just depends what they Sens feel they could get or what they want in return vs. what they are offered. You just never know what a player is worth because some players who should get you a big return don't and vice versa.
- Devils9503

yeah....if you don't count norris winners

Then I guess we should have signed Havlat for, I dunno, 2.5 million per year.

Better than having to trade our 2nd best defenseman (best defensively) for a slightly-worse version of Havlat and a salary dump.
- Mr_Clean

Touche. Although you don't have Havlat's best friend and half of the all generations Czech republic team on your team so HA!

yeah....if you don't count norris winners
- sensarmy_11

The Norris trophy was created to recognize the best defenseman on how much they helped their team, now it is the defenseman who has the most points, doesn't mean your the best in the game.

The Norris trophy was created to recognize the best defenseman on how much they helped their team, now it is the defenseman who has the most points, doesn't mean your the best in the game.
- Devils9503

i'm sorry, but anyone who suggests that andy greene is better then erik karlsson has absolutely zero credibility in anything he says about hockey

i'm sorry, but anyone who suggests that andy greene is better then erik karlsson has absolutely zero credibility in anything he says about hockey
- sensarmy_11

Devils fans man....

Not really at all in fact karlsson is an amazing player and top five defender what I was saying that he never would of gotten the career he has had in Ottawa here he never would of developed the same and there for wouldn't be the power house he is because at the time he started in Ottawa his defensive game would not have been up to par with what Lou expects regardless of what he does offensively. We sent down Eric Gelinas and no I am not saying he is anywhere close to karlsson but he put up 29 points in 60 games in his first season and was still sent down because he is bad defensively he'll I'm not even saying it's the best choice I think it's stupid but what I am saying that is just the way things work in jersey it was nothing at all about knocking is all word talent and because you didn't read after that part you didn't read me say that I have argued this very subject before that Lou treats all players the same and that is if you don't play defense you don't play Lou lams does not care whatsoever what you do offensively if you are a train wreck in your end and that is because he is stubborn and does things his way
- blizzzard

fair enough, I still think Loe would've had EK65 on his Roster for at least half of the 2009-2010 season, the other half in Albany.

And Karlsson just turned 24 at the start of this summer.

i'm sorry, but anyone who suggests that andy greene is better then erik karlsson has absolutely zero credibility in anything he says about hockey
- sensarmy_11

Honestly I forgot about Karlsson, but what makes a great defensemen or better yet, shouldn't the best defensemen on any team be used for every situation? Because looking at Karlsson TOI numbers during his Norris winning year and he wasn't the best defenseman, according to the numbers.

fair enough, I still think Loe would've had EK65 on his Roster for at least half of the 2009-2010 season, the other half in Albany.

And Karlsson just turned 24 at the start of this summer.
- Erik6Karlsson5

Yea that's all I was saying I wasn't trying to sound like a dink and like that rangers fan pointed out I don't really word things as strongly as I could or should and am pretty damn lazy with my periods lol or any form of sentence structure for that matter