Somebody finally put it in perspective.

It probably takes Keith going down for half a season for people to appreciate what #2 means to the Hawk's backend.
- RickJ

Keith really is elite. 2 Norris trophies are no accident. Like most, I wish he was better at getting shots through. He really needs to learn how effective just a quick wrister to get the puck to the net can be. But he is a sneaky passer and can read plays and break them up like nobody. And he is chippier than people realize.

>-----you win Elbows. I get it. You hate the guy.
>-----one of 2 things happens:
1. he is traded and we watch from a distance to see what happens
2. Stanley keeps him with the club to at least start the season

If alternative 2 happens, we will quickly see what Q has in store and whether Leddy is going to be any more than he is today with this club.

My hope: Nick gets traded. If that happens, we'll see who is right. I agree with "SOME" of what you say but certainly not all of it -- hence the reason there is no ability to have any kind of conversation with you about Nick.
- savvyone-1

There isn't an ability to have a conversation because you keep comparing Leddy to Keith.

And you also fail to add the caveat that while 2 and 7 took their lumps, it was generally against the other team's best players. Unlike Leddy who plays some of the most sheltered minutes in the league. And struggles.
And
Also. By the time Nick has made the decision to skate the puck out, his team mates are winded from being in their own zone and heading off for a line change.

But whatever. I hope he is traded too. And then you will see that he was lucky to have Q and his staff protecting him.

Jorge Soler - 2HRs, 3 RBI tonite - he's 7-11, 3 HR, 6 RBI in 3 games.

Cubs may have something here.

The only Olympic team Seabrook couldn't make was Team Canada. Pretty tough when you have Weber, Doughty, Pietrangelo all as right handed shots and the pressure from the media to pick PK Subban too, who ended being the water boy anyway.
- RickJ

And even then. I am not so sure Pietrangelo is better than Seabrook as of right now. He is the better skater which is most likely the reason he was picked for the larger ice surface.

Like I said though. After TC's defensive performance in that tournament, its pretty hard to quibble over any of the choices.

Jorge Soler - 2HRs, 3 RBI tonite - he's 7-11, 3 HR, 6 RBI in 3 games.

Cubs may have something here.
- StLBravesFan

He sure has the looks of a player from some of what I watched.

Somebody finally put it in perspective.

It probably takes Keith going down for half a season for people to appreciate what #2 means to the Hawk's backend.
- RickJ

Its amazing Rick. The guy has won the Norris twice. Been top pairing on the best collection of defensive talent twice. Was 5th in assist this last season. And still doesn't get the credit from fans that he has earned.

While not an advanced stat guy per se, looking at them gives you an understanding of how valuable both Hjalmarrson and Oduya are to the
Hawks. They allow Keith and Seabrook to be utilized in more of a two way role than strictly shutting down the other teams' best forwards.

Keith really is elite. 2 Norris trophies are no accident. Like most, I wish he was better at getting shots through. He really needs to learn how effective just a quick wrister to get the puck to the net can be. But he is a sneaky passer and can read plays and break them up like nobody. And he is chippier than people realize.
- tomcat24

Exactly TC. Bang on post.

Jorge Soler - 2HRs, 3 RBI tonite - he's 7-11, 3 HR, 6 RBI in 3 games.

Cubs may have something here.
- StLBravesFan

He's a kid just like Baez with raw talent who has fallen below the Mendoza line. Temper your expectations until they get more seasoning. However, the best is yet to come IMO with Russell and Bryant. Now, that starting pitching thing. Hmmm...

If Danault turns into a Dirk Graham type I would be thrilled, Bear. I see him more of a Bolland type. The pre injury Bolland. With a bit more offense to his game.
- Elbows15

There was a game in the Subway Super Series versus the traveling Russian team where Danault took a stick at the end of the 2nd period and went in for work that was finally finished with about four minutes left. he came back to the bench and begged to get back pout there and still made contact (as he had most of the game).

There was a game in the Subway Super Series versus the traveling Russian team where Danault took a stick at the end of the 2nd period and went in for work that was finally finished with about four minutes left. he came back to the bench and begged to get back pout there and still made contact (as he had most of the game).
- wiz1901

I have seen him play about 15 20 times. He is the classic high motor player. Fearless. And I think somewhat under rated as a play maker. The question with him, to me, is will his on ice vision translate to NHL speed as far as offensive ability is concerned. The defensive side of the game and FO will come due to his work ethic. If he doesn't make it, it won't be because of attitude problems or an unwillingness to work.

But I am a bit biased toward him. I have liked his game since the first time I saw him play. I really think he is going to be a solid pro for a number of years.

I have seen him play about 15 20 times. He is the classic high motor player. Fearless. And I think somewhat under rated as a play maker. The question with him, to me, is will his on ice vision translate to NHL speed as far as offensive ability is concerned. The defensive side of the game and FO will come due to his work ethic. If he doesn't make it, it won't be because of attitude problems or an unwillingness to work.

But I am a bit biased toward him. I have liked his game since the first time I saw him play. I really think he is going to be a solid pro for a number of years.
- Elbows15

I think Danault and McNeill will get a little taste of the show this season and a longer look the following year. The more I look back at the 2011 draft the more amazing it gets.

I think Danault and McNeill will get a little taste of the show this season and a longer look the following year. The more I look back at the 2011 draft the more amazing it gets.
- DarthKane

Those two could be a big reason why a move hasn't been made yet. That first offseason after the first pro season is when many players make a huge leap in readiness. Of the two, Danault has more of the characteristics to make that happen. After watching McNeill live I wonder if many question his effort level because of how effortless he moves for a big man. Just a thought I had.

Due to the upcoming cap crunch, I think they both will be a part of the team next season. They are going to need the ELC to keep some guys. Ideally, I think teams would like to get 2 years of the ELC at the NHL level. Especially as cap teams.

If Danault turns into a Dirk Graham type I would be thrilled, Bear. I see him more of a Bolland type. The pre injury Bolland. With a bit more offense to his game.
- Elbows15

Not bad too

Looks like Brookbank's headed to Calgary...

http://www.csnchicago.com...ank-tryout-calgary-flames

Good Morning Boyz!!!
I am hoping for some activity today but i doubt it.
Who do you guys think will pose a challange for our Hawks this season? my pick for some unknown reason is Dallas dunno why but its just a feeling.

Does anyone play D anymore in football? Its getting ridiculous.


Also. As a Sox fan, I am enjoying the last few days of watching Adam Dunn strike out 3xs a game. What a waste of money that guy is.
- Elbows15

When I lived with my folks a few years back and was gainfully employed Id go 4-6 times a year. Now that I have rent and bills and crap though still gainfully employed I really can't justify a ball game. Though I think they have some solid pieces to build around. If sale stays healthy and they find some relief help they could be pretty interesting. And I'm sick of Hawk.

I think TT has issues in Rockford for 6 weeks tops then goes on a killing for fun spree. But no rush there. More excited to see Kane destroy the rest of the league.

Good Morning Boyz!!!
I am hoping for some activity today but i doubt it.
Who do you guys think will pose a challange for our Hawks this season? my pick for some unknown reason is Dallas dunno why but its just a feeling.
- BGKarras

Q messing with the lineup because he's bored trouncing everyone.

STL will be annoying. The coyotes are always dumb to play. Dallas still has a real mediocre blue line but should score a ton. Colorado is fixing to be meh.

Question: What is the status of Johnny O's foot? To me, this is a piece of the cap puzzle.
- Beaver-Warrior

This is what I wonder also. A couple of questions for those who understand the cap.
1. If Oduya starts the season on IR, do they have to get rid of anyone?

2. How long would he have to stay on IR before he could come back and not lose anyone.

It seems last year with Kane's injury it freed up cap space to bring others in. I was wondering if Oduya was out til after the first of the year, and assuming others would get injured and put on IR if they could deal with the cap this way.

Even if no one else got injured, would this process allow you to push this decision down the road?

This is what I wonder also. A couple of questions for those who understand the cap.
1. If Oduya starts the season on IR, do they have to get rid of anyone?

2. How long would he have to stay on IR before he could come back and not lose anyone.

It seems last year with Kane's injury it freed up cap space to bring others in. I was wondering if Oduya was out til after the first of the year, and assuming others would get injured and put on IR if they could deal with the cap this way.

Even if no one else got injured, would this process allow you to push this decision down the road?
- vabeachbear

I don't think you can accumulate cap space by day using the LTIR, as you can with being under the cap normally - if Oduya goes on LTIR, the Hawks could replace him with (I think) a skater with a full year cap hit of $1.1MM, which doesn't increase as the days go bye.

If they're under the cap without using LTIR, they can always pay the new guy the amount they're under - after 40 games (or however many days that would be), they could still pay the new skater $1.1, which means they could get a player with an annual cap cap of $2.2.

With LTIR, they could only pay the new guy $550,000 at the half-way point. So - the answer to (2) is "never".

This is what I wonder also. A couple of questions for those who understand the cap.
1. If Oduya starts the season on IR, do they have to get rid of anyone?

2. How long would he have to stay on IR before he could come back and not lose anyone.

It seems last year with Kane's injury it freed up cap space to bring others in. I was wondering if Oduya was out til after the first of the year, and assuming others would get injured and put on IR if they could deal with the cap this way.

Even if no one else got injured, would this process allow you to push this decision down the road?
- vabeachbear

The short answer to your question is: YES

Without me trying to write this in my own words, I will point you guys to CAPGEEK and this example below is copy/pasted directly from their site to explain how this has worked in the past for other teams (real life examples).

EXAMPLE 1: The Detroit Red Wings followed Option 2. The upper limit was $64.3M and the Red Wings’ Averaged Club Salary or cap payroll on the final day of training camp was $66,137,878, including two injured players, Darren Helm ($2.125M cap hit) and Patrick Eaves ($1.2M cap hit), with an aggregate Averaged Amount of $3.325M. Rather than simply place Helm and Eaves on LTIR, a move that would have left them with no cap space and a new upper limit of $66,137,878, they recalled Jordan Coreau ($792.5K) and Xavier Ouellet ($670K), two players with an aggregate Averaged Amount totalling $1,462,500. That increased their Averaged Club Salary to $67,600,378 — $3,300,378 above the upper limit or almost exactly the $3.325M aggregate of Helm and Eaves. Only then did they place Helm and Eaves on LTIR, leaving the Red Wings with an upper limit to $67,600,378 for the duration of the LTIR designations. The Red Wings demoted Coreau and Ouellet the next day, bringing their Averaged Club Salary back down to $66,137,878, while leaving them with the flexibility to add $1,462,500 in Averaged Amounts, space created by the one-day recall of Coreau and Ouellet.

Ultimately, as I have said before, I think this is what Stanley may have in mind to begin the season. And if so, as you see from the example, this is done on the FINAL DAY OF TRAINING CAMP! So we could be twisting in the wind for a LONG time regarding seeing this resolved.

And, this would be quite smart if in fact Johnny O is not fully healed, it would make sense to put him on LTIR on the last day of training camp and have TT (and maybe 1 or 2 others that can also be sent down to Rockford w/o risk of being lost to waivers) recalled to begin the season.

Ultimately, they CAN be over the CAP to begin the season IF they have a valid LTIR situation. Way over.

So in my above example (and per CapGeek), Johnny O's cap hit is $3.375M and with TT in the lineup card, the Hawks are $2.2M over now.

The way, then, I understand this to work is on the last day of training camp, the Hawks would want to recall 1 or 2 players to get them over the CAP by the amount of Oduya's cap hit, or 3.375M.

Thus, if they recalled Trevor Van Riemsdyke with a cap hit of $925K, they'd be over the CAP by $3.141M -- they would put Johnny O on LTIR -- and their NEW cap hit would be just under the $69M.

Morgan Reilly is 20 and already a much better player than Nick Leddy.
- Elbows15

Nah. Morgan has gotta ways to go on the man, unless things have ardically changed.


But I just can't sit back, when I see all this talk about Leddy's light edging and power stride.

We can talk all we want about isolating an ability (let's say abilities and add Leddy's recognition and passing ability to his strength list too.) that is used in the game, the "entire player" is what determines the success when the puck is dropped and the game is on the line.(dat sounded so dramatic.)
But to start to compare feet, and talk about Leddy's pair, you cannot knock Duncan Keith pair, as he has always has a huge burst and balance and is an aggressive to the puck player.

Leddy has to make further strides in that area before he gets and no-trade clause or gets my votes...well rounded play is getting there, but the really good defenders do so much with their feet on most plays.
I guess I am saying we are blessed with so many good balanced skating defenders, all with slightly different skill sets, feet, and accomplished game.

When I see writings about Seabrook's lack of burst, I always chuckle because the guy is so well balanced and smooth and bigger guy, it is easy to try and find holes in his game or view his movement as a "less" and his movement skills have always been a plus to get him to where he is.

I just think the Hawks pretty much have five defenders right now that all teams would be interested in...and I am not sure if any are going anywhere now.

But let's take things up a notch: a few years ago, at the London "rookie tournament", the Toronto contigent pinned back the hawk ears, and it was a coming out party for Leaf's newly acquired Jake Gardiner, who went on to make the Leaf's roster.
He was quick dominant and physical and offensive in this very tourney.

So.....
I wonder if our Stephan Johns does the same and ends up as physical rookie who steps when necessary.

So in my above example (and per CapGeek), Johnny O's cap hit is $3.375M and with TT in the lineup card, the Hawks are $2.2M over now.

The way, then, I understand this to work is on the last day of training camp, the Hawks would want to recall 1 or 2 players to get them over the CAP by the amount of Oduya's cap hit, or 3.375M.

Thus, if they recalled Trevor Van Riemsdyke with a cap hit of $925K, they'd be over the CAP by $3.141M -- they would put Johnny O on LTIR -- and their NEW cap hit would be just under the $69M.
- savvyone-1

What about when Oduya comes off LTIR?

What about when Oduya comes off LTIR?
- carcus

Hopefully someone else with a decent cap hit gets injured just before

Hopefully someone else with a decent cap hit gets injured just before
- vabeachbear

LOL!

Hopefully some else gets hurt...