New cap ceiling doesn't mean teams should go out and over pay players. Regardless, I'll agree to disagree, Anderson is a good goalie, but not worth over $4 million per season. I don't think it's an unreasonable contract though.
- MnGump

Overpayment is a dangerous word to use around a goaltender that was the best in the league two seasons ago. Just saying.

Jesus Christ, will you shut the (frank) up?

You are totally getting Bobby Ryan on the flyers next year. 100%

There, happy? Now go away with your constant, unrelenting, thinly veiled hints, as if you can somehow convince Bobby Ryan not to sign in Ottawa through the hockeybuzz forums.


- TommyDeVito

agree 100%

I really just don't think Ryan will be worth the amount he gets. He's not an elite player, he's a good player but I don't think he's worth 7plus IMO.
- ClarksonDavid

LOL the irony in your statement. I love it! If David Clarkson got a 6M$ deal, then Ryan should be worth 12M$ year based on a linear projection. However, that won't be the case, Ryan is worth 7M$ a year if Callahan is worth 5.5M$ a year (or even more I don't remember).

I think it is if the team isn't winning.
Let me rephrase that: I agree with you but...
Players generally take pay cuts to win and charge more to lose...
Couple that with a cheapskate owner = not looking good
- JN1980

Only Montreal (1) and Toronto (2) will earn more broadcast revenue this year than the Ottawa Senators (3). The Rangers (4) and Vancouver (5) are several million behind Ottawa broadcast money. Melnyk might ignore the average fan, even a season ticket holder. But, I have no doubt that TSN and Rogers has let them know that they are getting huge revenue and it should be reflected on the ice.

Only Montreal (1) and Toronto (2) will earn more broadcast revenue this year than the Ottawa Senators (3). The Rangers (4) and Vancouver (5) are several million behind Ottawa broadcast money. Melnyk might ignore the average fan, even a season ticket holder. But, I have no doubt that TSN and Rogers has let them know that they are getting huge revenue and it should be reflected on the ice.
- spatso

Great Point.
Heres hoping...

Surprised nobody has raised the possibility that either Anderson or Lehner is traded before the deadline.
I would include Lehner in a deal for Evander Kane.
Mast people think he is the goaltender of the future for Ottawa. I am not nearly as confident.
- spatso

It's certainly an interesting point - particularly since goaltending is such a major issue in Winnipeg, and the extension doesn't appear to have any kind of no-movement clause (unlike the deals for MacArthur, Legwand, and Michalek). I wouldn't go so far as to suggest that Lehner should or even would be traded, but it's not impossible than an extension like this could make an Anderson/Pavelec swap a very feasible part of a trade for Kane or even Bogosian (who I keep hoping they are trying to work on).

It's certainly an interesting point - particularly since goaltending is such a major issue in Winnipeg, and the extension doesn't appear to have any kind of no-movement clause (unlike the deals for MacArthur, Legwand, and Michalek). I wouldn't go so far as to suggest that Lehner should or even would be traded, but it's not impossible than an extension like this could make an Anderson/Pavelec swap a very feasible part of a trade for Kane or even Bogosian (who I keep hoping they are trying to work on).
- khawk

Yes, since the end of the season I have been thinking about Lehner as the key in a deal for Kane. I have also thought about an Anderson/Pavelec swap as well. Murray has said he was going to add a hard forward to this team and I refuse to give up on the hope it is Kane.

I would rather see the Sens deal Lehner than Lazar. But it will cost one of those guys (or a 2015 1st plus, plus some solid talent).

I agree with your general point about Ryan, but Toews is not a 65pt player. He has 440pts in 484GP in his career, which works out to just under 75pts/year, he's never had a year where he wasn't on pace for at least 69pts, and the only 2 years it was that low were years he couldn't legally drink in the United States.

Which leads to the obvious conclusion that alcohol makes you score more points.
- khawk

that was my point.....you can't just look at his point total, say "he's a 60pt player", and determine his worth.

your example is exactly what i'm talking about. toews point totals are always around 65-70. they would be higher if not for extenuating circumstances, but the fact remains that he scores an average of about 65pts per season.....and is making 10.5mil.

there are also extenuating circumstances for why ryan's point totals were lower the last couple of years.........injury, reduced PP time, etc.

you can't just say "he's scored only 50pts the last 3 years, so isn't worth as much".

It's certainly an interesting point - particularly since goaltending is such a major issue in Winnipeg, and the extension doesn't appear to have any kind of no-movement clause (unlike the deals for MacArthur, Legwand, and Michalek). I wouldn't go so far as to suggest that Lehner should or even would be traded, but it's not impossible than an extension like this could make an Anderson/Pavelec swap a very feasible part of a trade for Kane or even Bogosian (who I keep hoping they are trying to work on).
- khawk

Do you think Anderson gains or loses value through this extension? I think the change is negligible, unless he has another outstanding season.

that was my point.....you can't just look at his point total, say "he's a 60pt player", and determine his worth.

your example is exactly what i'm talking about. toews point totals are always around 65-70. they would be higher if not for extenuating circumstances, but the fact remains that he scores an average of about 65pts per season.....and is making 10.5mil.

there are also extenuating circumstances for why ryan's point totals were lower the last couple of years.........injury, reduced PP time, etc.

you can't just say "he's scored only 50pts the last 3 years, so isn't worth as much".
- sensarmy_11

He hasn't proved to be anything more then a 55 point player the last 3 years is pretty much all I was saying. I like Ryan, I would love him on the leafs as their 2nd line right winger but i just think 7-8 million is to much for him.

that was my point.....you can't just look at his point total, say "he's a 60pt player", and determine his worth.

your example is exactly what i'm talking about. toews point totals are always around 65-70. they would be higher if not for extenuating circumstances, but the fact remains that he scores an average of about 65pts per season.....and is making 10.5mil.

there are also extenuating circumstances for why ryan's point totals were lower the last couple of years.........injury, reduced PP time, etc.

you can't just say "he's scored only 50pts the last 3 years, so isn't worth as much".
- sensarmy_11

I am not sure injuries and reduced PPs are necessarily 'extenuating circumstances.'

He hasn't proved to be anything more then a 55 point player the last 3 years is pretty much all I was saying. I like Ryan, I would love him on the leafs as their 2nd line right winger but i just think 7-8 million is to much for him.
- ClarksonDavid

7 x 7 would be perfect!!

I am not sure injuries and reduced PPs are necessarily 'extenuating circumstances.'
- Mr_Clean

i simply meant there are reasons why point totals fluctuate, a lot of which have nothing to do with a players ability.

He hasn't proved to be anything more then a 55 point player the last 3 years is pretty much all I was saying. I like Ryan, I would love him on the leafs as their 2nd line right winger but i just think 7-8 million is to much for him.
- ClarksonDavid

Granted, his goal-scoring ability makes him better than the average "55 point player", but I sort of agree, especially over the sort of term being bandied about here.

One thing that kinda bugs me here is that part of the rationale for bringing in Ryan is that he'd be able to play with an elite playmaker who would help him reach his goal-scoring potential... I really like Kyle Turris, and have high hopes for MZ, but it strikes me his goal-scoring ceiling isn't much higher playing with those guys now than it was in Anaheim. It could be we have another truly top-end playmaker in a while, but by then Ryan will be declining...

Not a huge problem, but if we want to shuck out 7.5 million for 8 years I think it's a consideration.

i simply meant there are reasons why point totals fluctuate, a lot of which have nothing to do with a players ability.
- sensarmy_11

Sure, fair enough. All I'm saying is sometimes injuries are predictors of future success, and reduction in PP time the reflection of a player's ability (not saying that's true of Ryan, just that it's possible in general).

Sure, fair enough. All I'm saying is sometimes injuries are predictors of future success, and reduction in PP time the reflection of a player's ability (not saying that's true of Ryan, just that it's possible in general).
- Mr_Clean

granted.....and if his injuries were say serious back or knee injuries, it would be more concerning then injuries like he's had, which you can play through, but cause discomfort/pain (and likely impact performance).

as for the PP time, when you have getzlaf/perry/selanne taking up a bulk of your 1st unit PP time, not exactly shocking that his pp minutes would be reduced. not many players would be cracking that pp unit.

i don't necessarlily think that overpaying ryan is good idea, but i also don't think in today's NHL...........where guys like grabovksi, bolland, callahan, etc are getting over 5mil..........that having ryan at 7-7.5 is an overpayment.

granted.....and if his injuries were say serious back or knee injuries, it would be more concerning then injuries like he's had, which you can play through, but cause discomfort/pain (and likely impact performance).

as for the PP time, when you have getzlaf/perry/selanne taking up a bulk of your 1st unit PP time, not exactly shocking that his pp minutes would be reduced. not many players would be cracking that pp unit.

i don't necessarlily think that overpaying ryan is good idea, but i also don't think in today's NHL...........where guys like grabovksi, bolland, callahan, etc are getting over 5mil..........that having ryan at 7-7.5 is an overpayment.
- sensarmy_11

I agree that, for a normal team, 7-7.5 million is not a massive overpayment for Ryan. Just when you're working on a budget, and in the early-to-middle stages of a rebuild, I'm not sure that money over a very long term is a smart investment.

Then again, trading him for a limited return would be a very poor idea as well.

I agree that, for a normal team, 7-7.5 million is not a massive overpayment for Ryan. Just when you're working on a budget, and in the early-to-middle stages of a rebuild, I'm not sure that money over a very long term is a smart investment.

Then again, trading him for a limited return would be a very poor idea as well.
- Mr_Clean

ottawa will never get a "bobby ryan" type player in return for bobby ryan, so pay the man his money. we have NOBODY in our system who can give us what he can. he's the only pure goal scorer on this team, if that means that you have to overpay him by 500k, then you do it. as for the term.....who cares.........even if you sign him to max term, he'll still only be 34 or 35 when the deal expires. not like we're talking about extending a 33 year old here.

if the offers start getting into the 8mil range, then maybe you start questioning the extension....but 7.5 or less, is a good deal for ottawa.

term makes no sense..... i would of rather had 2 years at 4.5.....

your example is exactly what i'm talking about. toews point totals are always around 65-70. they would be higher if not for extenuating circumstances, but the fact remains that he scores an average of about 65pts per season.....and is making 10.5mil.
there are also extenuating circumstances for why ryan's point totals were lower the last couple of years.........injury, reduced PP time, etc.
you can't just say "he's scored only 50pts the last 3 years, so isn't worth as much".
- sensarmy_11

My example was meant to stop these misrepresentations of Toews' offensive statistics - he's not a 65pts/season player, because there's a massive difference between a player missing games due to injury, and things like a player being benched or having their PP time reduced. By your definition, Karlsson was a 14pts defenceman in 2012/13 - however, he got those 14pts in 17GP, which suggests he was actually more like a 67pts/season player that had a serious injury. Which sounds more accurate to you? If you believe it's the latter, then Toews is a 75pts/season player for his career, has been averaging closer to 78pts/season over the past few years, and has been on pace for at least 30G if not 40G for each of the past four years - which puts him into quite a different category than a '65pts' player, even before you take into account the rest of his player qualities.

As for Ryan, yes he was injured for part of last year, but it's undeniable that his scoring has been lower in the past 3 years, that he's not been scoring at even a 60pts/season pace since his career-best years from 2008/09 to 2010/11, and the past two seasons haven't even had him scoring goals at a 30G/season pace. As such, there's really no meaningful comparison to be made between him and Toews, whereas you could make a much stronger case for Ryan to be paid based on something like the extension Rick Nash was given from the Rangers.

Good deal for Ottawa - budget teams make the playoffs with awesome goaltending and we have maybe one of the best 1-2 punches in the league - if you don't have an elite goalie better to have 2 very solid ones.

and in signing, Andy has basically said he is a team player first because he knows there is an excellent chance he loses the starters job to Lehner - so another good day for Ottawa. Andy is great and was the best goalie in the NHL during the lockout - I;m excited, best goalie Ottawa has ever had
- tuna99

Maybe the best since Vancouver had 2 of the top 5 goalies in the league?

He hasn't proved to be anything more then a 55 point player the last 3 years is pretty much all I was saying. I like Ryan, I would love him on the leafs as their 2nd line right winger but i just think 7-8 million is to much for him.
- ClarksonDavid

Nothing like the irony of a David Clarkson avatar posting about what's too much to pay a player.

Do you think Anderson gains or loses value through this extension? I think the change is negligible, unless he has another outstanding season.
- Mr_Clean

It depends on the situation, of course - but I'd suggest that for a team like Winnipeg it could actually be quite important to have that long-term assurance around their goaltending upgrade for the next 4 years, as opposed to a situation where Anderson could just as easily leave after this year.

My example was meant to stop these misrepresentations of Toews' offensive statistics - he's not a 65pts/season player, because there's a massive difference between a player missing games due to injury, and things like a player being benched or having their PP time reduced. By your definition, Karlsson was a 14pts defenceman in 2012/13 - however, he got those 14pts in 17GP, which suggests he was actually more like a 67pts/season player that had a serious injury. Which sounds more accurate to you? If you believe it's the latter, then Toews is a 75pts/season player for his career, has been averaging closer to 78pts/season over the past few years, and has been on pace for at least 30G if not 40G for each of the past four years - which puts him into quite a different category than a '65pts' player, even before you take into account the rest of his player qualities.

As for Ryan, yes he was injured for part of last year, but it's undeniable that his scoring has been lower in the past 3 years, that he's not been scoring at even a 60pts/season pace since his career-best years from 2008/09 to 2010/11, and the past two seasons haven't even had him scoring goals at a 30G/season pace. As such, there's really no meaningful comparison to be made between him and Toews, whereas you could make a much stronger case for Ryan to be paid based on something like the extension Rick Nash was given from the Rangers.
- khawk

i think you sort of misunderstood what i was saying. i'm not implying that toews is a "65 pt player".....however, if you just looked at his point totals, and ignored everything else (injuries, games played, etc), then he is.

has ryan dropped off a little? maybe a bit. he's not an 80pt player right now. however, that being said, he looked great at the beginning of this season, prior to getting his sports hernia. he had a rough lockout year in anaheim....but then again, so did getzlaf, so did perry. i'm not gonna judge him based off half a season where his entire team struggled to score goals. the year before that, he had 31 goals and i think 59pts.

term doesn't make sense to me..... next 4 years he's staying in Ottawa? I hope not