That's ok. My opinion is that defensive play has become far too overvalued. The guy is 23 and has put up 44 points in 48 games, and 50 points in a full season in a "Bad" year.

Defensive play can be taught. Offensive talent cannot. Kadri has the talent.
- RogerRoeper

The bold is true to an extent. But why do you think Offensive talent can't be taught, yet defensive talent can? I think if a player leans in one direction they have the ability to learn the either or to be honest. Can you reach the elite level of being a offensive player, when at first you're known for defense? No, I don't think so, but I believe you can significantly improve in that area. Same can be said in the other direction.

I think it comes down to instinct. If you have the instinct to play a defensive or offensive game then that'll be the main staple, or cornerstone, or your game. I don't believe that negates the ability to add other facets to your game though.

So, again in my opinion, I don't necessary think you can teach one and not the other. I just think whatever area your instinct leads toward is the part of your game that you can take to an 'elite' level.

Guys... I have been doing some thinking and finally came up with realistic trade proposal for once to acquire big Joe.

How about we send them Brad Stuart, Wayne Primeau, & Marco Sturm?

Fair?
- Tee-Dot

Seems steep.

I think defensive play is just so hard to gauge.... Look at bozak and kadri. Both play on the same team. Lots of people see to think bozak is good defensively and that kadri is horrendous defensively. I wouldn't say bozak is any better (if at all) defensively than kadri.
- burn

I wouldn't either

I freakin' love Thornton. I've wanted him on the Leafs for a long, long time. He would be great with Kessel.

I wouldn't give up more than Bozak, Franson and a 3rd rounder for him.

It just doesn't make sense.

Pity.
- Atomic Wedgie

Franson is expendable, Bozak would be replaced by Joe, and a 3rd would not be the end of the world... Of course you'd give a little more.

The bold is true to an extent. But why do you think Offensive talent can't be taught, yet defensive talent can? I think if a player leans in one direction they have the ability to learn the either or to be honest. Can you reach the elite level of being a offensive player, when at first you're known for defense? No, I don't think so, but I believe you can significantly improve in that area. Same can be said in the other direction.

I think it comes down to instinct. If you have the instinct to play a defensive or offensive game then that'll be the main staple, or cornerstone, or your game. I don't believe that negates the ability to add other facets to your game though.

So, again in my opinion, I don't necessary think you can teach one and not the other. I just think whatever area your instinct leads toward is the part of your game that you can take to an 'elite' level.
- RickJames77

hey, everyone has their own 2 cents, but im a firm believer that there is such thing as a gift.

you can have the gift of super speed, super hard shot, sniper, etc

you cant learn that, no matter how hard you practice and train and workout.

so, i must say i think that its a lot easier to learn the D part of a forward than it is to be naturally gifted like say kessel...he has natural scoring talent. you cant just learn that, or "pick it up" so to say.

my 2 cents

Guys... I have been doing some thinking and finally came up with realistic trade proposal for once to acquire big Joe.

How about we send them Brad Stuart, Wayne Primeau, & Marco Sturm?

Fair?
- Tee-Dot

That was a swift kick to the nuts

Franson is expendable, Bozak would be replaced by Joe, and a 3rd would not be the end of the world... Of course you'd give a little more.

- Tee-Dot

I've wanted Thornton on the Leafs since I lived in Boston.

That was in 2000.

The dude is 35.

If we still had D'Amigo, I would throw him in.

Fine, add Bodie, Frattin and Orr.

That was a swift kick to the nuts
- RickJames77

Sure was...

You'd think they'd learned their lesson and then they go and give away another franchise centre for even more dog scraps.

hey, everyone has their own 2 cents, but im a firm believer that there is such thing as a gift.

you can have the gift of super speed, super hard shot, sniper, etc

you cant learn that, no matter how hard you practice and train and workout.

so, i must say i think that its a lot easier to learn the D part of a forward than it is to be naturally gifted like say kessel...he has natural scoring talent. you cant just learn that, or "pick it up" so to say.

my 2 cents
- Lucas Neilson

Hard work goes a long way to be good on the defensive side of the puck.

The hockey gods dole out offensive talent.

I've wanted Thornton on the Leafs since I lived in Boston.

That was in 2000.

The dude is 35.

If we still had D'Amigo, I would throw him in.

Fine, add Bodie, Frattin and Orr.
- Atomic Wedgie

Done and done.

Sure was...

You'd think they'd learned their lesson and then they go and give away another franchise centre for even more dog scraps.

- Tee-Dot

Don't even get me started...I did say something that alluded to the Bruins trade of Thorton before you did you rat bastard

That self shot was enough, I didn't need to be kicked when I was done

Hard work goes a long way to be good on the defensive side of the puck.

The hockey gods dole out offensive talent.
- Atomic Wedgie

i couldnt agree more. thats what i was trying to get across

Don't even get me started...I did say something that alluded to the Bruins trade of Thorton before you did you rat bastard

That self shot was enough, I didn't need to be kicked when I was done
- RickJames77

hey, everyone has their own 2 cents, but im a firm believer that there is such thing as a gift.

you can have the gift of super speed, super hard shot, sniper, etc

you cant learn that, no matter how hard you practice and train and workout.

so, i must say i think that its a lot easier to learn the D part of a forward than it is to be naturally gifted like say kessel...he has natural scoring talent. you cant just learn that, or "pick it up" so to say.

my 2 cents
- Lucas Neilson

I guess the more I look back at it, you guys are right.

I tried to allude to the 'elite' level being attributed to instinct, or naturally gifted as you say. But looking back at it and taking into account, wedgie's comment, I see where you guys are coming from.

- Tee-Dot

Not to mention the third shot, mentioning the most recent blunder.




I'm going to get back at you Leaf bastards the only way I know how





Glad to see the restraining order the cup has on the Leafs is still in place

Couldn't find one from the olden days, but this type of first pass out of the zone is what I remember Kabs for.

He used to thread the needle to Sundin up the ice all the time.

I guess the more I look back at it, you guys are right.

I tried to allude to the 'elite' level being attributed to instinct, or naturally gifted as you say. But looking back at it and taking into account, wedgie's comment, I see where you guys are coming from.
- RickJames77

In all honesty, if you only had two choices to do it over again do you trade Seguin for the Dallas package or for Kessel instead? Remember, you still get to keep Hamilton and Knight

I've wanted Thornton on the Leafs since I lived in Boston.

That was in 2000.

The dude is 35.

If we still had D'Amigo, I would throw him in.

Fine, add Bodie, Frattin and Orr.
- Atomic Wedgie

Thornton is very under rated. His choker tag is over done...

I met him as a skinny little rookie at Cowboys in Calgary. He was a funny dude.

Thornton is very under rated. His choker tag is over done...

I met him as a skinny little rookie at Cowboys in Calgary. He was a funny dude.
- Iggysbff

I can't find any Leaf negativity in this post... are you feeling ill today?

In all honesty, if you only had two choices to do it over again do you trade Seguin for the Dallas package or for Kessel instead? Remember, you still get to keep Hamilton and Knight
- Tee-Dot

Trade Seguin straight up for Kessel? Obviously I'd take that. I love Eriksson and think he is a great fit on the Bruins. I also like Smith, but we have people that could take his place in the A and Kessel and Krejci would be a nice combo obviously.

Imagine that? If we traded Seguin back for Kessel. That would be a poop show.

Trade Seguin straight up for Kessel? Obviously I'd take that. I love Eriksson and think he is a great fit on the Bruins. I also like Smith, but we have people that could take his place in the A and Kessel and Krejci would be a nice combo obviously.

Imagine that? If we traded Seguin back for Kessel. That would be a poop show.
- RickJames77

We essentially gave you Knight and Hamilton for free.

Couldn't find one from the olden days, but this type of first pass out of the zone is what I remember Kabs for.

He used to thread the needle to Sundin up the ice all the time.
- ILoveLamp

One of my faveorite Leafs

I guess the more I look back at it, you guys are right.

I tried to allude to the 'elite' level being attributed to instinct, or naturally gifted as you say. But looking back at it and taking into account, wedgie's comment, I see where you guys are coming from.
- RickJames77

rick james

rick james
- Lucas Neilson

- RickJames77

refreshing i must say.