Because 9 times out of 10 I prefer to tell people to go fck themselves than dish out a logical, detailed response. So, yeah, I'm kinda lazy.

But thanks.
- Jeropotato

My hero

You know, i'll bite.

So let me get this straight. The draft that had Malkin also had Ovechkin (Hence why Malkin was second). I'd consider that a #1a and #1b option. Either way you get a potential superstar at that time. So for the 2 years in a row, Pittsburgh pretty much had 2 1st overall choices. With the lockout season it's hard to even argue what could've potentially happened as the success of Pittsburgh was not immediate until Crosby came along and that was even a year after he was on the team.

Based on speculation of what-if scenarios. You're saying that Pittsburgh would not have finished last? Yet after even having Crosby, they still did (in the east) for one year? So lets not forget for a "4th year" in a row they also drafted 2nd overall picking staal.

So 4 years in a row they picked top 2. What difference is that to Edmonton? They actually changed it into success?
- iAvery

good post. I think it also has to do with the fact that 2 of those players, Sid and Malkin, are ridiculous talents. Fair or safe to say that had they been available at the draft over Hall and RNH we would be in a different boat. Although I am sure that some idiot Pens fans would say that it was great scouting that led the Pens to pick those guys, and that an average club would have chosen differently.

good post. I think it also has to do with the fact that 2 of those players, Sid and Malkin, are ridiculous talents. Fair or safe to say that had they been available at the draft over Hall and RNH we would be in a different boat. Although I am sure that some idiot Pens fans would say that it was great scouting that led the Pens to pick those guys, and that an average club would have chosen differently.

- Jeropotato

Best comment on Pens board was how Bernier succeeded because of the leafs solid defensive game employed by RC.

Jeff O Niell and Matt Barnaby never were the brightest of guys...


http://blogs.edmontonjour...play-against-oneill-says/

If you are on here for more than 10 minutes and actually reading anything but pro Oilers related posts, I'm quite certain you see many, many people calling Oiler fans delusional, unrealistic and just plain stupid! FYI I live it! I hear it everyday from fans of other teams.

All of your above points (aside from you saying it is an unfavorable location) are all pretty much directly related to KLowe he hired, was involved or was the reason all of those things are happening. Not to mention his PR blunders. I would say his PR blunders alone would and should have costed him his job! I'm also not saying firing KLowe will magically turn the teams fortunes around, but it may be a big reason no one wants to come play in the (as you said) unfavorable location!
- undisputed_8821

You speak of fans being unrealistic, let me ask you this:

Looking at the teams roster and prospect pool on Draft Day 2010. What is the realistic timeline to end a rebuild? What is the end of a rebuild? Playoff Hockey? Stanley Cup contender? Stanley Cup Championship? Management said 5 years, we have completed 4.

Also, looking at the roster/prospect pool when Mac T took the helm at the end of the 2012-13 Season, what is a reasonable expectation for him to make the necessary changes to get us into the playoff's?

Maybe I'm not realistic, but I expect this rebuild (from 2010-11) will take 5 years of non-playoff hockey, and I expect it will have taken Mac T 3 full seasons (4 summers) to have made the changes necessary to get this team to the playoff's. I believe this is Craig MacTavish's responsibility.

I have a reasonable expectation that this is the year that the Oilers finally develop, practice and execute a system that works for the core group of young players we have on the roster. This shall include 5X5 play, the Power Play and Penalty kill. This is 100% on Dallas Eakins and his staff .

I also have (blind?) faith that from that point on we will actually start to see quality young players developed through our system with the ability to make solid contributions as support players on our NHL Club. This is a result of Kevin Lowe's side of the responsibility.

Am I being unrealistic in my expectations?

Site fixed yet?

Site fixed yet?
- Lahey

Nope. Still sh!t.

good post. I think it also has to do with the fact that 2 of those players, Sid and Malkin, are ridiculous talents. Fair or safe to say that had they been available at the draft over Hall and RNH we would be in a different boat. Although I am sure that some idiot Pens fans would say that it was great scouting that led the Pens to pick those guys, and that an average club would have chosen differently.

- Jeropotato

I should also make mention, to the point that he was trying to make. Regardless of whomever "won" the lottery of Crosby. It was Pittsburgh. So They had #1, #2, #1, #2. Even if they did decent in the standings for the lockout year, they still had 3 out of 4 top 2 picks.

Cause i'm bored at work and curious on comparison to a team that was at the bottom for so long and draft top 5 so many years in a row.

2002 - Pittsburgh #5 (No Edmonton in top 5)
2003 - Pittsburgh #1 (No Edmonton in top 5)
2004 - Pittsburgh #2 (No Edmonton in top 5) (arguable #1b choice with Malkin)
2005 - Pittsburgh #1 (No Edmonton in top 5)
2006 - Pittsburgh #5 (No Edmonton in top 5)
2007 - Neither Pittsburgh or Edmonton in top 5 (First year making playoffs)
2008 - Neither Pittsburgh or Edmonton in top 5 (Pittsburgh first finals appearance)
2009 - Neither Pittsburgh or Edmonton in top 5 (Pittsburgh won the cup, 8yrs after drafting top 5)
2010 - Edmonton #1
2011 - Edmonton #1
2012 - Edmonton #1 (won the lottery)
2013 - Edmonton not in the top 5.
2014 - Edmonton #3

You could also argue that Colorado has had many top 3 picks in the draft also in similar years. But based on 13 yrs of top 5 choices from teams success in the drafts, Pittsburgh definately holds an edge from high draft choices. But has 2 stanley cup finals and one stanley cup (back to back).

I actually disagree slightly that this is an Oiler rule exclusively.

Ottawa did this unintentionally after their expansion.

Pitts did it intentionally, but it worked for them quickly enough that the spotlight never exposed them.

Chicago did this intentionally, but it worked for them quickly enough that the spotlight never exposed them.

Edmonton did this intentionally, took it too far and too long and the full spotlight came glaring down on the organization.

Buffalo is doing this intentionally and because of Edmonton's lack of success at doing so now become the straw that broke the camels back.

I like the new system, it was very similar to what I had proposed on the HF boards awhile back. The only difference is I would only had only two lotto picks. It is extremely rare that a potential superstar drops to #3.

Jeff O Niell and Matt Barnaby never were the brightest of guys...


http://blogs.edmontonjour...play-against-oneill-says/
- Iggysbff

I think Jeff ONeil is one of the biggest jokes of a hockey analyst, he never has anything intelligent to say and just goes based on his opinions and never facts. Plus his raging boner for the Leafs Talk

I should also make mention, to the point that he was trying to make. Regardless of whomever "won" the lottery of Crosby. It was Pittsburgh. So They had #1, #2, #1, #2. Even if they did decent in the standings for the lockout year, they still had 3 out of 4 top 2 picks.

Cause i'm bored at work and curious on comparison to a team that was at the bottom for so long and draft top 5 so many years in a row.

2002 - Pittsburgh #5 (No Edmonton in top 5)
2003 - Pittsburgh #1 (No Edmonton in top 5)
2004 - Pittsburgh #2 (No Edmonton in top 5) (arguable #1b choice with Malkin)
2005 - Pittsburgh #1 (No Edmonton in top 5)
2006 - Pittsburgh #5 (No Edmonton in top 5)
2007 - Neither Pittsburgh or Edmonton in top 5 (First year making playoffs)
2008 - Neither Pittsburgh or Edmonton in top 5 (Pittsburgh first finals appearance)
2009 - Neither Pittsburgh or Edmonton in top 5 (Pittsburgh won the cup, 8yrs after drafting top 5)
2010 - Edmonton #1
2011 - Edmonton #1
2012 - Edmonton #1 (won the lottery)
2013 - Edmonton not in the top 5.
2014 - Edmonton #3

You could also argue that Colorado has had many top 3 picks in the draft also in similar years. But based on 13 yrs of top 5 choices from teams success in the drafts, Pittsburgh definately holds an edge from high draft choices. But has 2 stanley cup finals and one stanley cup (back to back).
- iAvery

Another interesting thing to look at is how those terrible teams showed little or no gradual improvement until they were very close. Fans sometimes expect to see a steady ascension from the bottom to the top, when it doesn't work that way.
Teams don't go from 30th, to 26th, to 22nd yo 16th, to 8th to the Stanley Cup very often.

Have a look at Pittsburgh, LA and Pittisburgh and you'll see it looks more like

30th, 29th, 30th, 27th, 27th, 25th, 16th, 8th, then SCF.

As far as draft order, teams that drafted low continued to do so for multiple years and instead of a steady climb, seemed to plateau for years until the pieces were in place and then a steep progression occurred.

Pitts 5th, 1st, 2nd,1st,2nd,20th and by then were contenders.
Chicago 3rd, 7th, 3rd, 1st, 11th, and then 28th
LA was a bit different at 11th for 3 years, then 4th, 2nd, 5th, 15th and then were in the Finals.

It's not completely unrealistic for the Oilers to draft 1st, 1st, 1st, 7th, 3rd, 10th and then be in the playoff's. Seems to me that other horrible teams managed to pull out of it, and trust me, to a lot of fans things looked hopeless for them at some point of their rebuild.

I actually disagree slightly that this is an Oiler rule exclusively.

Ottawa did this unintentionally after their expansion.

Pitts did it intentionally, but it worked for them quickly enough that the spotlight never exposed them.

Chicago did this intentionally, but it worked for them quickly enough that the spotlight never exposed them.

Edmonton did this intentionally, took it too far and too long and the full spotlight came glaring down on the organization.

Buffalo is doing this intentionally and because of Edmonton's lack of success at doing so now become the straw that broke the camels back.

I like the new system, it was very similar to what I had proposed on the HF boards awhile back. The only difference is I would only had only two lotto picks. It is extremely rare that a potential superstar drops to #3.
- Aerchon

Disagree. It isn't taking Edmonton that much longer than anyone else. The biggest stall for the Oilers has been that they didn't draft between 6th and 10th in all of the 3 or 4 years leading up to the Hall draft. We were poop, but not poopty enough in those seasons to have more than Petry, Dubnyk and Eberle in the system, developing, when we drafted Hall. It's all about the starting point and where we were in 2010, and who we had when we drafted our "Crown Jewel".

This would be a much different team if we already had Doughty, Pietrangelo, Toews, etc when we drafted Hall. Would the Pens have made the playoff's so soon after drafting Sid had they not had Malkin, Fleury and Whitney?
Would Chicago been a playoff team so soon after drafting Kane without Toews and Seabrooke?
Would LA be able to deploy a young Drew Doughty so soon on a playoff team so soon without Kopitar and Brown?

The big think that warps the perception is that Hall was drafted 1st as our player to build around, unlike the other teams who used their 1st over all pick as the Cherry on top. These other teams were horrible for many years before adding that key player.

Disagree. It isn't taking Edmonton that much longer than anyone else. The biggest stall for the Oilers has been that they didn't draft between 6th and 10th in all of the 3 or 4 years leading up to the Hall draft. We were poop, but not poopty enough in those seasons to have more than Petry, Dubnyk and Eberle in the system, developing, when we drafted Hall. It's all about the starting point and where we were in 2010, and who we had when we drafted our "Crown Jewel".

This would be a much different team if we already had Doughty, Pietrangelo, Toews, etc when we drafted Hall. Would the Pens have made the playoff's so soon after drafting Sid had they not had Malkin, Fleury and Whitney?
Would Chicago been a playoff team so soon after drafting Kane without Toews and Seabrooke?
Would LA be able to deploy a young Drew Doughty so soon on a playoff team so soon without Kopitar and Brown?

The big think that warps the perception is that Hall was drafted 1st as our player to build around, unlike the other teams who used their 1st over all pick as the Cherry on top. These other teams were horrible for many years before adding that key player.
- Jeropotato

Another factor not being considered is, the ability to attract top Free Agents. This is a problem across Canada and slightly worse in Edmonton, Winnipeg and Calgary.

What would it take to get Thornton?

What would it take to get Thornton?
- Oilers4Life14

A little more than you getting a job.

Oh ya, dates and poop are fine. When you use wikipedia's info for reports for school or trying to prove people wrong like that fuktard has, it isn't a credible source.

And my class learned Citing and Referncing in Gr.9 Academic (University) English... Totally bombed that unit.
- Oilers4Life14

I'm not even sure what he is arguing. Seems more like opinionated stuff based on hearsay and conjecture. A lot of "this one guy posted this so everyone thinks the same" crap.

If you ever make it to college or uni, you will be writing all of your papers in that format. It's a (frank)ing pain in the ass too.