Again, this is where Ogi would know, but I have flown a LOT over the years. Used to commute to Canada every week for four years.

My sense is icing, wind shear and equipment malfunction where the pilot can't compensate are the three main causes of most plane crashes these days.

Couple of things, I do know that some horrible crashes in models like 757's happened because the jets are so automated, the pilot literally can do nothing when a rudder freezes or something like that. I do agree that the props are scary in bouncy weather, but that kind of thing, unless it's wind shear on take off or landing rarely causes horrific accidents.

Nothing more fun than riding in a Beaver or an Otter on a Canada fly in. It's beautiful to see the landscape below you and anticipate hooking up with a monster pike.

Did one once up in the NWT, heavy fog and bouncy weather, had to fly 100 miles just over the trees, with 15 hungover guys coming back to Yellowknife from the lodge.

After we got out, they probably hosed down the inside from the barf. SAME trip, Jean Chretien, then Canadian PM was in Yellowknife negotiating a treaty with the Dogrib Second Nations, and a goose flew into the engine of a jet and it crashed.
- John Jaeckel

Yeah, we flew in and out of Red Lake ,ONT. Amazing. I was so hung over both ways that I was numb that I was flying in a prop. I did enjoy the scenery and would HIGHLY recommend anyone do that. I was fortunate enough to do it twice back before kids, and it was by far the best vacation I was ever on. NO cell phones, no internet....just fishing, a ton of liquor, and a bunch of friends.

Isn't someone still flying DC-3s somewhere?

The problem with flying - to me - is not the old(er) planes - I would think if they weren't safe, the airlines wouldn't fly them (and don't accuse me of drinking the Kool-Aid - there is great incentive for airlines to fly safe planes).

It's what happens inside the planes that drive me nuts: the cramped seating, the old seats where you're sitting right on the hard board under it because there's no cushioning left, the inadequate overhead storage.

But - cramming 30%-40% more people on airplanes than was usual thirty years ago is how the airlines make money these days.
- StLBravesFan

I think Russia does....thankfully I don't travel internationally for work.

To John's point, I know on the 737 guys are trained religiously how to overcome the rudder issue if it were to get stuck. Oh well.....

I went every year from 2003-2008, either the NWT (which is an amazing trip) or Ontario.

The NWT trip, you fly to Edmonton the first day which is the furthest north real "city" in Canada. Then you fly the following morning 700 miles north to Yellowknife (think Sicily, Alaska only about 17,000 more people and a couple of 4 story buildings), transfer to a float plane, then about 125 miles into the wilderness. 600 mile by 600 mile ice cold, crystal clear lake, only people are 400 aboriginals. Once caught TEN fish over 20 pounds in once day (9 lake trout, one pike). Could not straighten my right arm the following day. Not lying.

There is a guy who I think reads here occasionally who was there that day. He will vouch.

Jerry? You there?

I went every year from 2003-2008, either the NWT (which is an amazing trip) or Ontario.

The NWT trip, you fly to Edmonton the first day which is the furthest north real "city" in Canada. Then you fly the following morning 700 miles north to Yellowknife (think Sicily, Alaska only about 17,000 more people and a couple of 4 story buildings), transfer to a float plane, then about 125 miles into the wilderness. 600 mile by 600 mile ice cold, crystal clear lake, only people are 400 aboriginals. Once caught TEN fish over 20 pounds in once day (9 lake trout, one pike). Could not straighten my right arm the following day. Not lying.
- John Jaeckel

Nice we went to Job Lake. drove to Red Lake, spent the night boozing at some towny bar called the "snake Pit" and then jumped on a floater plane for about a 30 minute flight north on to Job Lake.

Tons of walleye, pike, a few muskie, and lake trout.

Ogi, correct me if I'm wrong but from a piloting standpoint, the turbo prop is a lot safer (i.e., easier for the pilot to control and land) than a jet in the event of mid-air equipment failures, no?
- John Jaeckel

Depends on what the failure is. Pros and cons to both types in that regard...making them about equal IMO. The biggest advantage to jets is their ability to get above most weather, and because of the speed advantage, if they can't get above it, they can get around it...usually fairly rapidly. Adding 100 miles to a route to go around weather takes 15-20 minutes tops.

Gotcha thanks Ogi

Again, this is where Ogi would know, but I have flown a LOT over the years. Used to commute to Canada every week for four years.

My sense is icing, wind shear and equipment malfunction where the pilot can't compensate are the three main causes of most plane crashes these days.
- John Jaeckel

All those things are factors, but the sad reality is that most accidents are pilot error. One of the biggest is what they call CFIT accidents...Controlled Flight Into Terrain. Nothing wrong with the airplane, just for some reason the pilots gets distracted or lost and just flies it into the ground.

Isn't someone still flying DC-3s somewhere?

The problem with flying - to me - is not the old(er) planes - I would think if they weren't safe, the airlines wouldn't fly them (and don't accuse me of drinking the Kool-Aid - there is great incentive for airlines to fly safe planes).

It's what happens inside the planes that drive me nuts: the cramped seating, the old seats where you're sitting right on the hard board under it because there's no cushioning left, the inadequate overhead storage.

But - cramming 30%-40% more people on airplanes than was usual thirty years ago is how the airlines make money these days.
- StLBravesFan

Still lots of DC-3's flying cargo around in Alaska and the Carribean.

Inflation in airline ticket prices has lagged well behind most products and services...by a lot. You see that reflected in the product. Passengers demand Greyhound Prices, so they're getting Greyhound service.

All those things are factors, but the sad reality is that most accidents are pilot error. One of the biggest is what they call CFIT accidents...Controlled Flight Into Terrain. Nothing wrong with the airplane, just for some reason the pilots gets distracted or lost and just flies it into the ground.
- Ogilthorpe2

But - with all of the flights - and the over-crowded airport runways and airspace - there are so few commercial accidents that that is one thing I never worry about (knock wood, as they say).

Plus, lots of emergency situations are handled professionally and safely every week...you rarely hear about those stories. Not sensational enough for today's media outlets.

Yeah, I feel bad your guys.....tough job, little respect and only glorified when disaster happens.

Plus, lots of emergency situations are handled professionally and safely every week...you rarely hear about those stories. Not sensational enough for today's media outlets.
- Ogilthorpe2

Can you give us a case study?

All those things are factors, but the sad reality is that most accidents are pilot error. One of the biggest is what they call CFIT accidents...Controlled Flight Into Terrain. Nothing wrong with the airplane, just for some reason the pilots gets distracted or lost and just flies it into the ground.
- Ogilthorpe2

Unfortunately, this is all too true as I unfortunately know all to well or at least a little too personally.

Plus, lots of emergency situations are handled professionally and safely every week...you rarely hear about those stories. Not sensational enough for today's media outlets.
- Ogilthorpe2

This has really amazed me in the last number of years given that it stays out of the "social media news" category (something that I am glad is the case btw). I've been on three commercial planes that almost had major problems. Two I know were almost problems because of later conversations with crew members and the other is a guess but a darn good educated one.

It's always fun to realize that your plane is the plane that has caused all of the emergency vehicles to be hanging around the runway, just in case things don't go as hoped. Love the brain process that sees them and always wonder what poor plane is needing that setup until you start approaching that particular runaway and go .

I don't fly commercially in the summer months much anymore. Does the condensation freak-out still occur as much (our term)? When they turn on the plane and the ac starts up on a nice hot, humid st Louis day, smoke/air vapor mist pours out of the system and all the people freak out assuming it's fire or something massively wrong. Never a good thing for those people already nervous about flying, lol. Luckily those freak outs happen on the ground.

ETA - I was glad we were in a jet on one of those occasions because I don't know that a TP would have been able to move at the angle and as fast as was needed to avoid the collision or at least avoid a massive jet wash situation.

This has really amazed me in the last number of years given that it stays out of the "social media news" category (something that I am glad is the case btw). I've been on three commercial planes that almost had major problems. Two I know were almost problems because of later conversations with crew members and the other is a guess but a darn good educated one.

It's always fun to realize that your plane is the plane that has caused all of the emergency vehicles to be hanging around the runway, just in case things don't go as hoped. Love the brain process that sees them and always wonder what poor plane is needing that setup until you start approaching that particular runaway and go .

I don't fly commercially in the summer months much anymore. Does the condensation freak-out still occur as much (our term)? When they turn on the plane and the ac starts up on a nice hot, humid st Louis day, smoke/air vapor mist pours out of the system and all the people freak out assuming it's fire or something massively wrong. Never a good thing for those people already nervous about flying, lol. Luckily those freak outs happen on the ground.

ETA - I was glad we were in a jet on one of those occasions because I don't know that a TP would have been able to move at the angle and as fast as was needed to avoid the collision or at least avoid a massive jet wash situation.
- stljam

I for one am very glad I have not had any of those situations but do laugh when the "fog" begins.

Still lots of DC-3's flying cargo around in Alaska and the Carribean.

Inflation in airline ticket prices has lagged well behind most products and services...by a lot. You see that reflected in the product. Passengers demand Greyhound Prices, so they're getting Greyhound service.
- Ogilthorpe2

When I was a kid, a loooong time ago, only "rich people" flew regularly

When I was a kid, a loooong time ago, only "rich people" flew regularly
- John Jaeckel

De-reg was in 1978 - that's the dividing point between flying as a "rich people's" transportation and as a mass-transportation system.

Before 1978, fairs were set by the Civil Aeronautics Board, which was charged with building and maintaining a profitable US airline industry, and fares were extremely high - BUT amenities were also high, passenger comfort was emphasized (the only marketing tool airlines had - couldn't lower prices to build market share).

De-regulation put fares back in the hands of the airlines.

I worked for a company that mass-produced airline meals for passenger in-flight feeding: this was an industry that didn't exist prior to de-reg, as there were so few passengers, meals could be prepared at the airport. It became an excellent business - until 9/11.

I for one am very glad I have not had any of those situations but do laugh when the "fog" begins.
- Cup-Bearer

In all of my flying, only 2 situations ever had me scared, well more accurately one had me scared and the other extremely relieved after the fact because I didn't realize how bad the situation was until after it was averted.

The only one that scared me was a TP private flight where we got some big cross wind during landing during winter after the airport had gotten some precipitation. We essentially skidded out and seemed to be a pretty good risk of rolling (using a car term that may not be accurate but describes the feeling) though I wonder if the wings would have prevented that from happening. The funniest thing was how apologetic the pilot and co-pilot where afterwards. We assured them that as long as we got to walk down the steps off the plane, we considered them good in our book. As a side note, that flight is also the only time I have ever heard a pilot cuss or seem to show any emotion/fear during any flight situation. Most pilots seem to react like the voice recording for the guy who landed the flight in the Hudson. When he started to get worried, you can imagine we freaked out a bit ourselves.

In all of my flying, only 2 situations ever had me scared, well more accurately one had me scared and the other extremely relieved after the fact because I didn't realize how bad the situation was until after it was averted.

The only one that scared me was a TP private flight where we got some big cross wind during landing during winter after the airport had gotten some precipitation. We essentially skidded out and seemed to be a pretty good risk of rolling (using a car term that may not be accurate but describes the feeling) though I wonder if the wings would have prevented that from happening. The funniest thing was how apologetic the pilot and co-pilot where afterwards. We assured them that as long as we got to walk down the steps off the plane, we considered them good in our book. As a side note, that flight is also the only time I have ever heard a pilot cuss or seem to show any emotion/fear during any flight situation. Most pilots seem to react like the voice recording for the guy who landed the flight in the Hudson. When he started to get worried, you can imagine we freaked out a bit ourselves.
- stljam

Have had a few, more than one on approach over the Schuylkill River in Philadelphia, always very bumpy and rolly for some reason

Can you give us a case study?
- FourFeathers773

Last week, in Dallas (I think) an MD-80 completely shredded a tire just as it was lifting off, tire debris took out the left engine. Very similar to what brought the Concorde down a few years back. They nursed it around the pattern on one engine and laned.

Stuff happens every day, but only makes the news if someone dies, or there's dramatic video.

I've declared an airborne emergency 7 times in 15 years, made the local news (a blurb) once.

Last week, in Dallas (I think) an MD-80 completely shredded a tire just as it was lifting off, tire debris took out the left engine. Very similar to what brought the Concorde down a few years back. They nursed it around the pattern on one engine and laned.

Stuff happens every day, but only makes the news if someone dies, or there's dramatic video.

I've declared an airborne emergency 7 times in 15 years, made the local news (a blurb) once.
- Ogilthorpe2

Ha, what was the ONE time that actually qualified for news coverage?

Ha, what was the ONE time that actually qualified for news coverage?
- FourFeathers773

A pitch control failure. The only time I ever doubted my ability to get out of it. Don't need to do that again.

A pitch control failure. The only time I ever doubted my ability to get out of it. Don't need to do that again.
- Ogilthorpe2

What exactly is that?

My job isn't nearly as exciting, it's a disaster if our emails are slow.