Sure there is. It happens every time a player like MacDonald or Lecavalier is brought up. It's happening right now. You yourself used it as the end all and be all to criticize Grossmann as a player. And when you were called out for it, and it was shown how misguided it was, that's when instead of talking about the player and the subject was changed to other issues such as the above.
It's flaws are just dismissed, because I'm still waiting for those that claim that Corsi is a reliable statistic for evaluating individual players to refute my stance on why it isn't. And it's become pretty clear that NHL teams feel the same way, as evidenced by statements made by Bob McKenzie, and Mike Babcock.
- MJL

Wrong. I mentioned Grossmann's struggles and used his advanced stats to show a trend. You took it to be the end all, be all magic number.

You ignored the posts about him failing the eye test and other points, locked onto the stats and made them the crux of the argument. That's all you have, misdirection and bullpoop.

Again, the only one acting like anyone is saying advanced stats are a magic number is you. Nobody else is saying that and you are mischaracterizing what others are saying where you infer that.

As does anyone with a police scanner
- Jsaquella

Bang... Right there!

They go hand and hand...


- PLindbergh31

the yankees and money, yes. winning and money, not always. see: rangers, new york.

Sad... I had a bad taste/Movies/Men lined up but I'm showing you some love today because you had to talk to customer service on the phone and you're adorable.

- mayorofangrytown

Well, I'm watching the news right now. I'm waiting for my headache to subside lest I waste a good beer to treat a minor annoyance.

Cool. Just don't tell OB.
- tangent_man

Wrong. I mentioned Grossmann's struggles and used his advanced stats to show a trend. You took it to be the end all, be all magic number.

You ignored the posts about him failing the eye test and other points, locked onto the stats and made them the crux of the argument. That's all you have, misdirection and bullpoop.

Again, the only one acting like anyone is saying advanced stats are a magic number is you. Nobody else is saying that and you are mischaracterizing what others are saying where you infer that.
- Jsaquella

The entire premise you had on Grossmann was completely based on analytics. It completely ignored the type of player he is, and what his strengths are as a player. Might as well have criticized him for not scoring enough goals. It would have equated to the same thing. There was one sentence at the end, that said he also fails the eye test. It is what is. And it was proven to be poor analysis. And if they weren't considered a magic number, they wouldn't be given the weight it is by some, over other things such as actually watching the game.


But you know what, it's old hat and happened long ago. Water under the bridge. I'd rather keep the conversation current. And stick to the subject matter. You seem to rather talk about the messenger rather then the message.

I have nothing against the Flyers, the particular player being discussed is just grossly overrated.
- EagleNuck

The topic has already taken page after page after page, day after day of a boring summer and made it even more dull and spawned more infighting. I refuse to have outsiders chip in unless they bring popcorn and beer, so pay up with some kettle corn and some of that XXX beer. You want to discuss something, try Rosehill and Rinaldo and their 4th line minutes and stats

That makes no sense. Some coaches overuse certain players because their teams just aren't good, meanwhile some teams are quite deep on defense have players who could be top 4 d-men playing bottom pairing minutes.

Using this logic, you're overestimating players on crappy teams and underestimating players on good team. Pretty weak argument.
- EagleNuck

I like the cut of your jib.

You're a coffee shop hipster now. You made your bed...
- tangent_man

- PhillySportsGuy

I know where you live too

Wrong. I mentioned Grossmann's struggles and used his advanced stats to show a trend. You took it to be the end all, be all magic number.

You ignored the posts about him failing the eye test and other points, locked onto the stats and made them the crux of the argument. That's all you have, misdirection and bullpoop.

Again, the only one acting like anyone is saying advanced stats are a magic number is you. Nobody else is saying that and you are mischaracterizing what others are saying where you infer that.
- Jsaquella

I like the cut of your jib.
- PLindbergh31

I agree with that evaluation of the stats evaluation by the gentleman from the left coast and slightly north

I know where you live too
- BiggE

What? Are stalking all the HB people in Jersey?

The entire premise you had on Grossmann was completely based on analytics. It completely ignored the type of player he is, and what his strengths are as a player. Might as well have criticized him for not scoring enough goals. It would have equated to the same thing. There was one sentence at the end, that said he also fails the eye test. It is what is. And it was proven to be poor analysis.


But you know what, it's old hat and happened long ago. Water under the bridge. I'd rather keep the conversation current. And stick to the subject matter. You seem to rather talk about the messenger rather then the message.
- MJL

It is old hat and your take of it is wrong. There were many discussions of Grossmann and I repeatedly mentioned that his play failed to pass the eye test and gave examples of his poor play that had nothing to do with stats. It was not one sentence.

Again, you mischaracterize what was said and cherry pick. That's why I talk about the messenger rather than the message, because the messenger is full of poop.

Otherwise, you wouldn't harp on an old discussion you misunderstood and look at the numerous posts since then that clearly state that nobody feels advanced stats are not a magical number that is flawless at analyzing players.

That's it. I don't want to have conversations with you because you're completely full of poop and any valid points you make drown in that vat of crap. It's tiresome to discuss anything with you, even when I agree with something you've said.

That's why I usually ignore you. You're tiresome, not especially entertaining and you seem to prefer to argue. I'm here to kill time and talk pucks.

What? Are stalking all the HB people in Jersey?
- mayorofangrytown

shhh

- 77rams

I know. My last post is my final one. Sorry to even bother to get involved in it.

shhh


- BiggE

If that's you in my bushes, go grab a pizza and come in

I'm almost afraid to ask whats going on in here. However once the scotch kicks in all bets are off
- BiggE

don't ask. it's a goddamn poop show.

I know. My last post is my final one. Sorry to even bother to get involved in it.
- Jsaquella

Thats what you said the last TWELVE times you engaged MJL in a *ahem* discussion.

- 77rams

I'm declaring this the official movie of Bill's forum.

If that's you in my bushes, go grab a pizza and come in
- Jsaquella

Give him the remote, maybe he'll put something on your wife will watch.

Thats what you said the last TWELVE times you engaged MJL in a *ahem* discussion.
- Doc_Sarcasm

i told him the other day he lacks self discipline. he told me he didn't because he put on a pair of pants an hour after he left the house.

I'm declaring this the official movie of Bill's forum.
- hereticpride

how many times have i posted this in here? 42 billion.

i told him the other day he lacks self discipline. he told me he didn't because he put on a pair of pants an hour after he left the house.
- hammarby31

Jsaq = Dog

MJL = Red Meat


I fail to see what pants have to do with it.

Possession stats. Not only those either, simply his goal against rate per 60 minutes compared to his own teammates is brutal. He's decent offensively, but on an actual legit contender he's getting paid a lot less and is given sheltered 3rd pairing minutes with PP time, zero PK time and as few minutes against top lines as possible.

$5 million per for that? Sign me up!
- EagleNuck

You already have Edler, though. The guy who had the worst +/- in the league and has a chronic back injury.