Chances are, you're going to be in somewhat of a rebuilding mode - or at least a transition mode - in 2015-16 (and, my guess is, 2016-17) under any circumstance - even if it costs you something then, you keep what you need to keep to be the best team possible this year.
- StLBravesFan

I don't see a transition or rebuilding for quite awhile...

The plan with a fairly young, high priced core is to tweak and replace older players with younger boys in the system...Or to trade a Sharp and create some cap space.

Unless something bad happens with the US economy, which I don't discount necessarily, the cap will continue to rise and the sport will continue to gain popularity. So the money will be there to keep this going unless major injuries and many poor decisions take place.

Offended? Nah, just have to speak up when homers make homer proposals.
- IggyOnly

Got me there, not gonna lie and say I'm not bias towards my favorite team. Just curious why the Flames WOULDN'T want Sharp? Maybe he's not worth a Glencross AND a 1st, but are we really over valuing a perennial 25-30 goal scorer who isnt terrible defensively and has a ton of playoff experience?

Or perhaps are you saying Glencross is more valuable than he really is (since its so out of the question to package him with a 1st)?

Serious questions, not trying to be snarky

Got me there, not gonna lie and say I'm not bias towards my favorite team. Just curious why the Flames WOULDN'T want Sharp? Maybe he's not worth a Glencross AND a 1st, but are we really over valuing a perennial 25-30 goal scorer who isnt terrible defensively and has a ton of playoff experience?

Or perhaps are you saying Glencross is more valuable than he really is (since its so out of the question to package him with a 1st)?

Serious questions, not trying to be snarky
- BlazinMike

Because they hope to be in the McDavid sweepstakes?

Got me there, not gonna lie and say I'm not bias towards my favorite team. Just curious why the Flames WOULDN'T want Sharp? Maybe he's not worth a Glencross AND a 1st, but are we really over valuing a perennial 25-30 goal scorer who isnt terrible defensively and has a ton of playoff experience?

Or perhaps are you saying Glencross is more valuable than he really is (since its so out of the question to package him with a 1st)?

Serious questions, not trying to be snarky
- BlazinMike

Because Flames are focused on winning 3-4 years from now. Sharp doesn't help them do that nearly as much as what will likely end up being a top 5 draft pick next summer, with a reasonable chance of being one of the much hyped top 2.

Because they hope to be in the McDavid sweepstakes?
- Ogilthorpe2

I guess that makes sense. No guarantee McDavid will be what he is being hyped up to be though.

Not saying he wont, just stating the obvious that nobody is a for sure thing

Because Flames are focused on winning 3-4 years from now. Sharp doesn't help them do that nearly as much as what will likely end up being a top 5 draft pick next summer, with a reasonable chance of being one of the much hyped top 2.
- Antilles

Don't expect a Brian Burke led team to make very many logical decisions. He pushed to resign Mike Cammilleri because the Flames don't have many other goal scorers. He claims to want to win, not tank for a top draft pick. (Cammilleri happens to be the same age as Sharp).

The Flames play hard under Bob Hartley. I don't see them pulling a season like the Sabres did last year or the Oilers did for a number of seasons.

There are plenty of teams Sharp would help, Flames being one of them.

I don't see a transition or rebuilding for quite awhile...

The plan with a fairly young, high priced core is to tweak and replace older players with younger boys in the system...Or to trade a Sharp and create some cap space.

Unless something bad happens with the US economy, which I don't discount necessarily, the cap will continue to rise and the sport will continue to gain popularity. So the money will be there to keep this going unless major injuries and many poor decisions take place.
- Al

I'm just not as optimistic about (a) the cap (a lot depends on the looney, not just the US economy); or (b) the younger boys - Eli (who sees the Frigid Porcines more than I do for sure) seems to say that he's not sure many are ready for the show, especially on the blue line, IIRC; or (c) the willingness of some skaters to sign cap-friendly deals (Saad, Seabrook, Oduya, Leddy).

I'm just not as optimistic about (a) the cap (a lot depends on the looney, not just the US economy); or (b) the younger boys - Eli (who sees the Frigid Porcines more than I do for sure) seems to say that he's not sure many are ready for the show, especially on the blue line, IIRC; or (c) the willingness of some skaters to sign cap-friendly deals (Saad, Seabrook, Oduya, Leddy).
- StLBravesFan

I can understand but you have Keith/Hoosa/Toews/Kane/Hammer and Crawford signed to longer deals and the cap will be higher most likely. Bowman will have to be good...

I think you misinterpreted my post about Lee and the comparison to Saad. I'm not saying he's Saad now, no way, I mean Lee has to prove it 1st of course. But I could see a similar style of play between the 2 was my point and that Saad is a better skater.
Plus when did I say that some prospects are sure fire NHL top talent? Besides Strome, Nelson or Lee who are projected to be in line-up are considered very valuable to isles. Grant it, I even said I could see Lee being moved for the right type of player. Plus when did I even say that the Isles D prospects are sure fire? Didn't either, just mentioned that team is very high on certain names ie Reinhardt, Poluck, Pokka. There are others like Mayfield & Czuczman who surprised us and played better than expected at years end. So there is no way I've tabbed them as the next big thing
On Frans, he's been one of the best 2C in the past 2 years. He plays against other top lines, just because he's not flashy he's very good and has been getting much better offensively as well, stats don't lie.

So yes a Leddy for Neilsen swap is unrealistic....
- Ur Not Me

The samplings have been good for Lee and Strome appears to be the real deal. When you imply so many are untouchable to Snow (whom you apparently can mind read) that does give us a sense of value.

If Sharp were offered for just say a Lee and Nielsen (not sayin it happens) do not tell me Snow would not seriously consider if not fall over himself to say yes. The same could be said of Sharp for a package including 2-3 prospects.

Snow needs to win this year. Even if he does new ownership may can him anyway.... Assuming Wang ever sells. Not believing entirely what I am reading today but do you think there is anything to Wang reneging on the agreement because he felt the Clippers sale reset the market? If so, Wang must be a grade A looney.

I'm just not as optimistic about (a) the cap (a lot depends on the looney, not just the US economy); or (b) the younger boys - Eli (who sees the Frigid Porcines more than I do for sure) seems to say that he's not sure many are ready for the show, especially on the blue line, IIRC; or (c) the willingness of some skaters to sign cap-friendly deals (Saad, Seabrook, Oduya, Leddy).
- StLBravesFan

Something else to consider. Will other players like Seabs and Oduya be more or less willing to take a Hammer style (did I just write that - UH OH) discount after the twins contracts. I think the perception (from fans at least) is that Kane and Toews pretty much maxed out and took as much as they could. Based on the Perry/Getzlaf deals as a percentage of the cap at the time I would somewhat agree (though K/T could have gone for more). What is the player perception of their deals?

Something else to consider. Will other players like Seabs and Oduya be more or less willing to take a Hammer style (did I just write that - UH OH) discount after the twins contracts. I think the perception (from fans at least) is that Kane and Toews pretty much maxed out and took as much as they could. Based on the Perry/Getzlaf deals as a percentage of the cap at the time I would somewhat agree (though K/T could have gone for more). What is the player perception of their deals?
- tredbrta

Why would Seabrook even ASK for much less than Subban - I would guess his cap hit will be $8MM in 2017-18.

The longer Saad goes unsigned, the closer he gets to $3.5-$4.

Al just said it - Bowman is going to have to be good.

Something else to consider. Will other players like Seabs and Oduya be more or less willing to take a Hammer style (did I just write that - UH OH) discount after the twins contracts. I think the perception (from fans at least) is that Kane and Toews pretty much maxed out and took as much as they could. Based on the Perry/Getzlaf deals as a percentage of the cap at the time I would somewhat agree (though K/T could have gone for more). What is the player perception of their deals?
- tredbrta

I'd like to think that Seabs would want to be a Hawk lifer but at the same time if they can only offer him 5 mil or something much lower than his market value...he may just pack up and say "i must be movin on"..by that time Johns will hopefully be Seabs 2.0

The samplings have been good for Lee and Strome appears to be the real deal. When you imply so many are untouchable to Snow (whom you apparently can mind read) that does give us a sense of value.

If Sharp were offered for just say a Lee and Nielsen (not sayin it happens) do not tell me Snow would not seriously consider if not fall over himself to say yes. The same could be said of Sharp for a package including 2-3 prospects.

Snow needs to win this year. Even if he does new ownership may can him anyway.... Assuming Wang ever sells. Not believing entirely what I am reading today but do you think there is anything to Wang reneging on the agreement because he felt the Clippers sale reset the market? If so, Wang must be a grade A looney.
- tredbrta

1st - Wang is a looney so u got that right

2nd I think Snow has put Nelson, Strome as untouchable, I agree on Nelson but depending on what the return is for Strome and/or Lee I would think about. Like I also mentioned if one of the kids are traded I could see Lee being the 1 but for the right young controlled player.
Also as a Isles fan, I don't play the homer card either. I will look to improve my roster depending on what it will take and/or does it make sense.
Ex: when the whole Subban rumors where swirling about possibly being traded or whatever, the whole isles fanbase wanted him (me included) I had arguments w/my fellow posters that I would give up Strome + Reinhart for Subban. Some thought I was nuts bc its to much but I didn't care, bc I'll give up young pieces to receive back a young stud piece (so if you get how I might evaluate) Now that's me, I cant speak for others and there perception or evaluations.

So your proposal of the Sharp for Lee & Neilsen to me is slight overpayment. Lee does not have to be included, that's my perspective. In fact that discussion of Neilsen straight up for Sharp was discussed briefly by many on our boards w/various opinions (this is before the FA signings of Grabo & Kumi).
But like I and most would rather trade Neilsen (if had to) more for a defenseman instead. Matter of fact I have come here and proposed 2 trade offers to get an opinion from you guys, and here it was (not saying it was going to happen)

Oduya + 2nd rd pick = Neilsen

Oduya + McNeil = Neilsen

Now grant it, I don't know if that's fair or not? But I wouldn't think that Snow would do that or if Bowman wouldn't either. Like I said many time a good hockey deal between the 2 teams cant happen bc you don't have the D depth to trade away.

I think he is.

You need scoring depth from your 3rd line. When this team wins, that 3rd is critical to take the heat off of the top 2 lines. Kruger hasn't proven the ability to do that. SHaw has.

Bickell/Shaw/Versteeg is my guess for line 3. Assuming Versteeg shows up ready to roll in September.
- SteveRain

Kruger starts 80% of his shifts in the defensive zone and plays with pylons like Bollig and Zus. I would never expect 50 point seasons, but the guy asked to play defense first, second, and third. Last year, he proved his game is still on the rise. Why not let him center Shaw and Bickell (or Versteeg if he proves ready)? I want my puck possession team to win draws, Shaw is abysmal at it.

Something else to consider. Will other players like Seabs and Oduya be more or less willing to take a Hammer style (did I just write that - UH OH) discount after the twins contracts. I think the perception (from fans at least) is that Kane and Toews pretty much maxed out and took as much as they could. Based on the Perry/Getzlaf deals as a percentage of the cap at the time I would somewhat agree (though K/T could have gone for more). What is the player perception of their deals?
- tredbrta

No only did they max out they were payed I think half the contract up front. That means with inflation at 5% a year the contract are about 25% better than the actual terms
Any player willing to give a hometown discount I think is short sited since their hockey careers are so short and financial stability is so difficult to obtain
Just my $.02

No only did they max out they were payed I think half the contract up front. That means with inflation at 5% a year the contract are about 25% better than the actual terms
Any player willing to give a hometown discount I think is short sited since their hockey careers are so short and financial stability is so difficult to obtain
Just my $.02
- molly2522

No - the signing bonuses - ranging from $7MM in the first year down to $4MM each in the last two years - are paid at the beginning of each year, NOT all $44MM at the beginning of the first year.

See Capgeek.

That's so much for the Sens to give up for two players in their 30's and one near the end of the road.
- acmidd28

Didnt Dallas give up something around that for Spezza?

That would make the most sense, his ELC can slide one more year and he gets some seasoning in the A.
- DarthKane

ELC don't slide if they are in the AHL, only if they are overseas or in Jr.

ELC don't slide if they are in the AHL, only if they are overseas or in Jr.
- BearsnHawks

I don't think that's true. I looked up the slide rule and it didn't mention anything about playing to the AHL vs overseas.

9.1 (d) (i) In the event that an 18 year old or 19 year old Player signs an SPC with a Club but does not play at least ten (10) NHL Games in the first season under that SPC, the term of his SPC and his number of years in the Entry Level System shall be extended for a period of one (1) year, except that this automatic extension will not apply to a Player who is 19 according to Section 9.2 by virtue of turning 20 between September 16 and December 31 in the year in which he first signs an SPC. Unless a Player and Club expressly agree to the contrary, in the event a Player’s SPC is extended an additional year in accordance with this subsection, all terms of the SPC, with the exception of Signing Bonuses, but including Paragraph 1 Salary, games played bonuses and Exhibit 5 bonuses, shall be extended; provided, however, that the Player’s Paragraph 1 Salary shall be extended in all circumstances.

9.1. (d)(ii) In the event that a Player signs his first SPC at age 18 and has had his SPC extended pursuant to Subsection (i), and such Player does not play at least ten (10) NHL Games in the second season under that SPC, then the term of his SPC and his number of years in the Entry Level System shall be extended for one (1) additional year. Unless a Player and Club expressly agree to the contrary, in the event a Player’s SPC is extended an additional year in accordance with this Subsection, all terms of the SPC, with the exception of Signing Bonuses, but including Paragraph 1 Salary, games played bonuses and Exhibit 5 bonuses, shall be extended; provided, however, that the Player’s Paragraph 1 Salary shall be extended in all circumstances.

Because Flames are focused on winning 3-4 years from now. Sharp doesn't help them do that nearly as much as what will likely end up being a top 5 draft pick next summer, with a reasonable chance of being one of the much hyped top 2.
- Antilles

Not sure I agree with that... They aren't going in for a wholesale youth movement. No fire sale of vets last year. They resigned Cammaleri. They kept Monahan up last year. Why do that if they were on a 3-4 year plan? I doubt Sharp goes there but Burke/Treliving would do the deal if the price was right. Burke has always love cup experience. Now, if Sharp fought every few games along with scoring Burke would be blowing up Stan's phone.

I'd like to think that Seabs would want to be a Hawk lifer but at the same time if they can only offer him 5 mil or something much lower than his market value...he may just pack up and say "i must be movin on"..by that time Johns will hopefully be Seabs 2.0
- EnzoD

You cannot let Seabs pack up and leave as a UFA. If it looks like he wants $8m plus (and he could get that in a few years if he doesn't slump) then Stan MUST move him for a package. A team like Philly would pay big time for a Seabrooke. I doubt Johns is a top pairing guy but you never know.

I just can't put Kruger ahead of Leddy OR Oduya.

The Hawks system revolves around puck control and puck moving D men. Both are huge contributors over that compared to Kruger. Hawks could get by with Toews, Teuvo, and Shaw and a patchwork veteran or prospect manning 4c.
- SteveRain

Kruger draws top line assignments and has improved his face-off percentage dramatically. Shaw and Teuvo are not ready for that assignment. I agree that Oduya is a top player however I just don't see how he stays unless its for the same money. Too many top defensive prospects that are scratching to come up from Rockford to not provide them with a growth path. Think that the Hawks give at least one of them a spot this year and two more the year after. My guess is that Johns and Clendening are next 2015-16 additions.

1st -

Oduya + 2nd rd pick = Neilsen

Oduya + McNeil = Neilsen

Now grant it, I don't know if that's fair or not? But I wouldn't think that Snow would do that or if Bowman wouldn't either. Like I said many time a good hockey deal between the 2 teams cant happen bc you don't have the D depth to trade away.
- Ur Not Me

Oduya plus a 2nd or McNeil would be too much for Stan and an overpay by anyone's standards. Maybe it could happen with adding another salary from the Hawks or Snow keeping half of Nielsen. Still hard to value cap space in terms of picks yet.

Yet to be seen about D depth. If Rundblad surprises the Hawks have 2-3 guys looking NHL ready along with Johns and Dalbeck.... and that leaves Clendening (who most services rate highest) out of the discussion. A far as current depth - I would take Leddy and Rosival (the 13 version) over Visnevsky now. Brookbank actually had a better year than Rosi too.

No only did they max out they were payed I think half the contract up front. That means with inflation at 5% a year the contract are about 25% better than the actual terms
Any player willing to give a hometown discount I think is short sited since their hockey careers are so short and financial stability is so difficult to obtain
Just my $.02
- molly2522

Totally agree. Did not know about their getting half up front. Brisson is a great negotiator.

Honestly, I think both deals could have been easily $500-750k lower. Hard to imagine a negotiator for the Hawks not sticking with the percentage of current cap model set by Getzlaf/Perry. Brisson must have crashed that argument somehow.

Totally agree. Did not know about their getting half up front. Brisson is a great negotiator.

Honestly, I think both deals could have been easily $500-750k lower. Hard to imagine a negotiator for the Hawks not sticking with the percentage of current cap model set by Getzlaf/Perry. Brisson must have crashed that argument somehow.
- tredbrta

Brisson ain't that good: they didn't get half up front.