GIT BOGO YET?!/?
- Streit2ThePoint

yup

I think it was maybe Tomahawk who had the best idea.

Starting with the day that they are eliminated from the playoffs (a dynamic number for each team), the team that has accumulated the most points will get the first pick, and then follow in descending order.

So, a team that is eliminated with 18 games to go has a better chance of accumulating points than a team that gets eliminated in the last week. It would be a (small) mathematical nightmare for those keeping track, but it at least makes teams keep trying to win all season long.
- jmatchett383

Anything that makes teams think long and hard about pulling a Lemieux is fine by me.

They have to do something -- I swear, these leagues are lucky somebody like me doesn't have a say. You wouldn't get any special consideration. 30 teams, 30 ping pong balls, draw all 30, and that's your draft order.

When you reward losing, you are penalizing winning. And personally, I can't stand that.

yup
- 2Real

If I purchased a Bogo yesterday, can I bring my receipt and receive the discount?
- PhillySportsGuy

Sorry, no Schennbacks.

On the other hand, those same tools validate the value of guys like Couturier, Raffl, and Read. Not sure those guys would have the same standing w/ the general fan base without things like quality of competition and zone usage entering the popular consciousness.
- Tomahawk

really ??

I can simply just watch the game like an old school hockey fan and see what Couturier, Read and Raffl bring to the team.
- GOA88

phew

Anything that makes teams think long and hard about pulling a Lemieux is fine by me.

They have to do something -- I swear, these leagues are lucky somebody like me doesn't have a say. You wouldn't get any special consideration. 30 teams, 30 ping pong balls, draw all 30, and that's your draft order.

When you reward losing, you are penalizing winning. And personally, I can't stand that.
- AllInForFlyers

That's fine and all, but what if a team is trying to win and just can't? Then you run the risk of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer. I mean, Quebec tanked to get Lindros, but I don't think Philly and Chicago "tanked" during the 06/07 season. Should Anaheim have had the same chance to get the #1 pick as them?

really ??
- -davies-

I was thinking along the same lines. I can see, independently, without some fancy bar graphs and Venn diagrams, that those 3 players are valuable to varying degrees, to the team.

Anything that makes teams think long and hard about pulling a Lemieux is fine by me.

They have to do something -- I swear, these leagues are lucky somebody like me doesn't have a say. You wouldn't get any special consideration. 30 teams, 30 ping pong balls, draw all 30, and that's your draft order.

When you reward losing, you are penalizing winning. And personally, I can't stand that.
- AllInForFlyers

you mean all the millions of dollars made in the playoffs isn't winning?

I was thinking along the same lines. I can see, independently, without some fancy bar graphs and Venn diagrams, that those 3 players are valuable to varying degrees, to the team.
- jmatchett383

I think the stats validate what our eyes are telling us. It appeared each line with Raffl got better and stats show that he made pretty much every player better when he played with them.

I think the stats validate what our eyes are telling us. It appeared each line with Raffl got better and stats show that he made pretty much every player better when he played with them.
- PhillySportsGuy

That's my problem with a lot of stats. They give values to our perceptions. Players don't play based on those numbers, the numbers are simply a trend based on what happens on the ice. That, and to tell us how worthless defensemen who can actually play defense are.

That's my problem with a lot of stats. They give values to our perceptions. Players don't play based on those numbers, the numbers are simply a trend based on what happens on the ice. That, and to tell us how worthless defensemen who can actually play defense are.
- jmatchett383

They do shed light on things though. It's also really nice to use when evaluating other team's players. You can see how a coach deploys certain players.

They do shed light on things though. It's also really nice to use when evaluating other team's players. You can see how a coach deploys certain players.
- PhillySportsGuy

Yes, but Grossmann is the best case I can think of. By watching him, I can tell that he:

1) Is very physical
2) Is slow
3) Has trouble when pressured
4) Is a fantastic shot blocker
5) Does not recover well
6) Is not a great puck handler/passer (goes hand in hand with #' 4 and 5)

His adv. stats ratings kill him primarily because of #6, without taking all variables into account. Yes, he has puck possession deficiencies, but that does not make him the worthless, expendable player than the advanced stats crowd makes him out to be.

By the way, I just had deja vu (there's a flaw in the matrix).

Yes, but Grossmann is the best case I can think of. By watching him, I can tell that he:

1) Is very physical
2) Is slow
3) Has trouble when pressured
4) Is a fantastic shot blocker
5) Does not recover well
6) Is not a great puck handler/passer (goes hand in hand with #' 4 and 5)

His adv. stats ratings kill him primarily because of #6, without taking all variables into account. Yes, he has puck possession deficiencies, but that does not make him the worthless, expendable player than the advanced stats crowd makes him out to be.

By the way, I just had deja vu (there's a flaw in the matrix).
- jmatchett383

Well one of the flaws of advanced stats is that Corsi factors in blocked shots. It paints a picture with a broad brush. Blocking shots is a skill. Certain players are better than others. How many shots end up getting through Diaz which are blocked by Grossmann? In Corsi, it doesn't matter whether the shot is blocked or not.

I'm not a Grossmann hater. I think he serves a purpose, but I think the Flyers are forced to use him more than they should. You can say that about everyone on the Flyers D.

I think the modern "physical dman" is going to be built more like Morin. Big guys who can skate and handle the puck a little bit will be sought after.

Grossmann is also a good PKer, so that helps a bit too.

Well one of the flaws of advanced stats is that Corsi factors in blocked shots. It paints a picture with a broad brush. Blocking shots is a skill. Certain players are better than others. How many shots end up getting through Diaz which are blocked by Grossmann? In Corsi, it doesn't matter whether the shot is blocked or not.

I'm not a Grossmann hater. I think he serves a purpose, but I think the Flyers are forced to use him more than they should. You can say that about everyone on the Flyers D.

I think the modern "physical dman" is going to be built more like Morin. Big guys who can skate and handle the puck a little bit will be sought after.

Grossmann is also a good PKer, so that helps a bit too.
- PhillySportsGuy

Grossmann was a great #4 when they picked him up, but he's now more likely a solid #5 or a weak #4 based on his knees. When he's counted on to play above his skills, he gets hurt. But the guy gives his all and can perform a certain skill set very well.

Grossmann was a great #4 when they picked him up, but he's now more likely a solid #5 or a weak #4 based on his knees. When he's counted on to play above his skills, he gets hurt. But the guy gives his all and can perform a certain skill set very well.
- jmatchett383

I think as along as Grossmann and AMAC aren't paired together we can avoid the apocalypse.

Grossmann was a great #4 when they picked him up, but he's now more likely a solid #5 or a weak #4 based on his knees. When he's counted on to play above his skills, he gets hurt. But the guy gives his all and can perform a certain skill set very well.
- jmatchett383

I agree. The defenseman on this team get crushed because almost all of them are playing out of position. This team is made up of 2nd and 3rd pairing dmen. We can argue about whether Amac is a 3/4 or 4/5, but it really doesn't matter because, no matter what, most of these guys are in over their head.

It's going to be scary without Timonen. He wasn't a great player anymore, but he was such a stabilizing force. He always got the best out of his partner whether it was Coburn or Schenn or someone else. I'm nervous Coburn is going to revert back to his inconsistent ways without Timonen as his partner.

His adv. stats ratings kill him primarily because of #6, without taking all variables into account.
- jmatchett383

That's a bit of a misconception.

CF/FF captures how the entire team does when he's on the ice. How he handles the puck is part of that, but all the other "little things" he does to contribute to the team's success (or failure) to control play while he's out there is captured as well to some extent: reads, positioning, support, good decision-making, etc.

It's not just a measure of puck skill.

There are plenty of examples of comparable players who aren't naturals with the puck but still managed not to hurt their teams in the possession game this past season: Scandella, Dillon, Methot, Volchenkov, Allen, Ericsson, Jackman, etc. Lot of those guys have the same mobility, injury issues, too.

To me, what separates them from Grossmann could be tactics (out of a player's control) and decision-making... I don't believe 8 is consistently making the best plays w/ and w/o the puck.

I don't have ESPN insider, does anyone know if the Flyers ended up having any prospects in ESPN's top 100?

one would think, without research, that it was locally or native derived. Unlike Thunder Bay, which was named after its namesake waterbody, or Medicine Hat, the english version of a native word for medical headgear, Flin Flon as a name appears to have quite a backstory.
- wilsonecho91

I always assumed it was locally derived. Never considered the possibility it could be inspired from fiction.

I don't have ESPN insider, does anyone know if the Flyers ended up having any prospects in ESPN's top 100?
- JAKEw1234

Laughton, Hagg and Sanheim.

The guy hates Morin and left Ghost out, too.

Laughton, Hagg and Sanheim.

The guy hates Morin and left Ghost out, too.
- Feanor

must be a flyer fan then only they can hate that much

Laughton, Hagg and Sanheim.

The guy hates Morin and left Ghost out, too.
- Feanor

ESPN has awful hockey coverage. It's, virtually, useless for any type of hockey news.

- wilsonecho91

This needs to be an avatar.

I'm nervous Coburn is going to revert back to his inconsistent ways without Timonen as his partner.
- PhillySportsGuy

This should be posted in r/Nosleep... chilling.