Really?

Just keep Dion. You're far worse without him. It's that simple.
- RogerRoeper

okay, let's start this over agian

i said i'd trade b.schenn for a young dman and you said and your best dman

what the hell does that mean?

That's why the Leafs are stuck w/him & his salary. NO team would take Dion unless some type of salary is being obtained by Leafs or a player w/almost same type of contract length/salary is going back.
Why do u think the Leafs were looking to rid themselves of Clarkson's contract for a late draft pick? Only difference between the 2 is Dion is valued more bc F's can be replaced.
Edit: Also he wouldn't be a salary dump for Isles, right now the Isles have too many F's.
- Ur Not Me

Can I have a link for that? You're seriously comparing Dion to Clarkson. Seriously?

okay, let's start this over agian

i said i'd trade b.schenn for a young dman and you said and your best dman

what the hell does that mean?
- Flyfreaky

The deal you mentioned included Dion, so I was asking would you trade Schenn AND your best D-Man. Understand? You only mentioned Schenn in your post.

The deal you mentioned included Dion, so I was asking would you trade Schenn AND your best D-Man. Understand? You only mentioned Schenn in your post.
- RogerRoeper

i wouldn't trade anything for dion

i wouldn't trade anything for dion
- Flyfreaky

If he wasn't a top 80 D-Man and not worth more than 4.5 million per, I wouldn't either. That Just happens to be laughably untrue.

And you're still not getting it. I meant the best #1 on the Flyers.

Come on...be better than this. Dion's contract is fine, he's still a very good defenseman. Comparing his contract with Clarkson's shows you're just not paying attention. Of course teams would love to poach Dion from the Leafs for garbage like Bailey...but it won't happen.

If Dion is on the Leafs for the duration of his deal the Leafs are fine with that. If he gets moved it's because he's pushed out by younger players coming up and we can use him to acquire a 1C.
- djamon

I never said he's a bad Dman. The only comparison I made was that its easier to move Dion instead on Clarkson w/both having ridiculous contracts. If you think that Dion's contract is fine, then that's your opinion, I think for the contract he signed for the player he is, to me not worth the length of it, the $$$ is fine.

Now I'm sorry if you think that Dion could fetch a 1C bc he cant and wont..

I never said he's a bad Dman. The only comparison I made was that its easier to move Dion instead on Clarkson w/both having ridiculous contracts. If you think that Dion's contract is fine, then that's your opinion, I think for the contract he signed for the player he is, to me not worth the length of it, the $$$ is fine.

Now I'm sorry if you think that Dion could fetch a 1C bc he cant and wont..
- Ur Not Me

Dion doesn't though. you are comparing his contract to Clarkson's which is very silly. Brooks Orpik just got 5.5 million. Jesus.

Can I have a link for that? You're seriously comparing Dion to Clarkson. Seriously?
- RogerRoeper

Not comparing the players, only comparing how they both signed long term deals w/high end salary. Now like I just posted, I don't mind the $$ on Dion only the length of contract... Lets not twist this into a comparison of players when I've only stuck to the contract status....

I never said he's a bad Dman. The only comparison I made was that its easier to move Dion instead on Clarkson w/both having ridiculous contracts. If you think that Dion's contract is fine, then that's your opinion, I think for the contract he signed for the player he is, to me not worth the length of it, the $$$ is fine.

Now I'm sorry if you think that Dion could fetch a 1C bc he cant and wont..
- Ur Not Me

Dion's contract is ridiculous? I know 30 GM's who would disagree, but have at it I guess.

Dion doesn't though. you are comparing his contract to Clarkson's which is very silly. Brooks Orpik just got 5.5 million. Jesus.
- RogerRoeper

Orpiks contract is bad, no one said it was a good one, and again I'm not talking about the $$$ for Dion only the length of his contract. Geez its only a difference of opinion, that's all.

U and most fans could think its a great deal, I and other could think its not...
lets not twist this into something else...

Dion's contract is ridiculous? I know 30 GM's who would disagree, but have at it I guess.
- djamon

If 30 GM's would disagree then he would of been moved already??? Don't ya think so?? Teams might want to acquire Dion, yes even my team, but with an exception of what is going back, do you agree on that? No team will take on his entire salary plus give up something of high end, sorry but he's not in the upper echelon class of Dmen for teams to go crazy about.

Saad looks better than any young forward or prospect in our system? Do you have any clue how stupid and off base of a comparison this ?

- Cptmjl

Simply compare his stats at the NHL level with anyone in your system or NHL at the same age or lower.

Strome, considered one of if not your top forward prospect was drafted the same year as Saad. They are the same age. Saad made the roster of a cup contending roster within a year of his draft while Strome was still in development. Saad was not being rushed by a team with the Hawks depth. He made the team on merit and has produced. He is clearly a top 6 forward and could easily project as 30 plus goal scorer if not better down the line.

Josh Ho Sang is still a question mark but could have huge upside. With Saad vs any of the Isles young talent you are comparing a proven young core player with possible young core players - nothing more.

Orpiks contract is bad, no one said it was a good one, and again I'm not talking about the $$$ for Dion only the length of his contract. Geez its only a difference of opinion, that's all.

U and most fans could think its a great deal, I and other could think its not...
lets not twist this into something else...
- Ur Not Me

The point I'm trying to make, and maybe RR too, is that people have to lose this "good contract/bad contract" dogma. A player gets paid what he's worth on the market, and saying his contract is bad is wrong. It is what it is. One poster thinks Dion is a 4.5m d-man, another Hab fan ripped it too (which is hilariously ironic).

He's paid what he's worth, and people are going to have to get used to the new economics of the NHL. Do I think Patrick Kane is worth the same as Toews? No way. Do I think PK is worth 72M? No (frank)ing way. But that doesn't matter...he's worth what he's getting paid...period. If a team has a need for a guy like Dion, and they have the Cap space he'll be easy to trade for full value. I agree a 1C would be very difficult, but maybe Dion and a prospect gets it done.

If 30 GM's would disagree then he would of been moved already??? Don't ya think so?? Teams might want to acquire Dion, yes even my team, but with an exception of what is going back, do you agree on that? No team will take on his entire salary plus give up something of high end, sorry but he's not in the upper echelon class of Dmen for teams to go crazy about.
- Ur Not Me

The Leafs don't want to move Dion! They're not in need of Cap space, and Dion was so over-played last year, that alone should tell you his value to us. They had needs in other areas (most of them have been addressed TBH), and Nonis has always said he'd move anybody if it improved the team.

If they wanted to move him they would have...they received a poop load of low-ball BS offers for him this summer.

If he wasn't a top 80 D-Man and not worth more than 4.5 million per, I wouldn't either. That Just happens to be laughably untrue.

And you're still not getting it. I meant the best #1 on the Flyers.
- RogerRoeper

we have no best #1 dman

just a bunch of #3-6

The point I'm trying to make, and maybe RR too, is that people have to lose this "good contract/bad contract" dogma. A player gets paid what he's worth on the market, and saying his contract is bad is wrong. It is what it is. One poster thinks Dion is a 4.5m d-man, another Hab fan ripped it too (which is hilariously ironic).

He's paid what he's worth, and people are going to have to get used to the new economics of the NHL. Do I think Patrick Kane is worth the same as Toews? No way. Do I think PK is worth 72M? No (frank)ing way. But that doesn't matter...he's worth what he's getting paid...period. If a team has a need for a guy like Dion, and they have the Cap space he'll be easy to trade for full value. I agree a 1C would be very difficult, but maybe Dion and a prospect gets it done.
- djamon

I get your point and others but w/certain teams the good/bad contract does come into play bc some teams might not have the resources to take on a bad contract, while some teams can. A bad contract can halt a teams future and can play a major part of trying to improve if a team is salary cap limited.
Grant it, I know the economics of the NHL is changing and players salaries are getting out-of-control again but in another 5-10yrs we will see another lockout.
But my point is teams like TOR, MTL, Rags, Flyers, etc have the resources compared to teams like OTT, Phx, NYI, Nash, etc.

More like Oduya + if anything but knowing the Isles it might have to be Hammer which Hawks wont move, that's why I mentioned a trade wont happen.

Also don't under value what Frans has done plus has 2 more years of low salary.
- Ur Not Me

I am hardly undervaluing Nielsen at all. He is a solid 2C and would look great here. You are undervaluing Leddy. The Hawks have an established top 4 - among the best in the league. To sit there and "project" Leddy as "mediocre at best" is just monumentally ignorant. Leddy just turned 23. With a real role he could be a top pairing d man and with top 4 minutes in the right system should be a to PPG d man for years to come. Take a look at what Brian Campbell did the year after he moved out of the Hawk's system. That could easily be Leddy (offensively) but he is 8 years younger.

You see a lot of trashing of him on Hawks boards but that is when he is having to compare to Hjallmerson, Keith, Seabrook and Oduya on a nightly basis. All of those players are in their prime.

I get your point and others but w/certain teams the good/bad contract does come into play bc some teams might not have the resources to take on a bad contract, while some teams can. A bad contract can halt a teams future and can play a major part of trying to improve if a team is salary cap limited.
Grant it, I know the economics of the NHL is changing and players salaries are getting out-of-control again but in another 5-10yrs we will see another lockout.
But my point is teams like TOR, MTL, Rags, Flyers, etc have the resources compared to teams like OTT, Phx, NYI, Nash, etc.
- Ur Not Me

yes, there are a lot of things that go into making a contract "good" or "bad"

i'd like dion's contract if i thought the dude cared about playing hard and showed some half decent leadership for what he's getting paid

to me his game is in slow decline and i think it's due to him getting a huge payday

The Leafs don't want to move Dion! They're not in need of Cap space, and Dion was so over-played last year, that alone should tell you his value to us. They had needs in other areas (most of them have been addressed TBH), and Nonis has always said he'd move anybody if it improved the team.

If they wanted to move him they would have...they received a poop load of low-ball BS offers for him this summer.
- djamon

I understand, but why do u think they received bad offers?? Maybe bc of his contract status? That was my point, that the Leafs are not really getting good legit offers.

I am hardly undervaluing Nielsen at all. He is a solid 2C and would look great here. You are undervaluing Leddy. The Hawks have an established top 4 - among the best in the league. To sit there and "project" Leddy as "mediocre at best" is just monumentally ignorant. Leddy just turned 23. With a real role he could be a top pairing d man and with top 4 minutes in the right system should be a to PPG d man for years to come. Take a look at what Brian Campbell did the year after he moved out of the Hawk's system. That could easily be Leddy (offensively) but he is 8 years younger.

You see a lot of trashing of him on Hawks boards but that is when he is having to compare to Hjallmerson, Keith, Seabrook and Oduya on a nightly basis. All of those players are in their prime.
- tredbrta

Nobody is trashing Leddy the reason why no islander would want him is bc the roster and/or prospects that the isles have are very similar style of play to leddy so in fact its not upgrading what the isles really need, a defensive Dman.
Well that's my take on it, I cant speak for my other fans..

I understand, but why do u think they received bad offers?? Maybe bc of his contract status? That was my point, that the Leafs are not really getting good legit offers.
- Ur Not Me

He's been on the market for a few months now. Sometimes it takes a long time to get a trade. They aren't getting full value trades for him right now. The leafs won't trade him unless they do get a serious offer. We do need him this year. Gardiner and Rielly aren't ready to take on the mins Dion does. I believe he will get traded. Just when is the ?.

He's been on the market for a few months now. Sometimes it takes a long time to get a trade. They aren't getting full value trades for him right now. The leafs won't trade him unless they do get a serious offer. We do need him this year. Gardiner and Rielly aren't ready to take on the mins Dion does. I believe he will get traded. Just when is the ?.
- JVR_42_PK81

and the what for, is the bigger ?

yes, there are a lot of things that go into making a contract "good" or "bad"

i'd like dion's contract if i thought the dude cared about playing hard and showed some half decent leadership for what he's getting paid

to me his game is in slow decline and i think it's due to him getting a huge payday
- Flyfreaky

Whether his game is slowly declining or not, I've gone on record of taking a chance w/Dion for my team w/an expense of Bailey being involved only bc of contract status. Grant it, I've said Dion could regress in the last 2-3yrs of his contract, who know could get worse in another year instead, but I'll give Dion another good 3-4 more years before I think he'll regress completely or maybe not....

The odd thing about this "report/speculation" is the line Leddy COULD START the season a Hawk and later get traded.

The hawks must get under by 2.2 mil before game one so the move is pointless.

I will not try to convince anyone about Leddy.

I will say if you match his presnet age with the number of games played you might see you are judging his present resume against players that didn't even make the NHL until later, starting their on the job training at 23.

Leddy is a mailman, so wherever he goes, he carries the puck. Tremendous leg drive and burst.

He has gotten heavier and stronger and has gradually improved his physical work against attackers.
Sure, he is not a finished product, but there is upside, and youth.

You don't get guys this young and experienced in trades unless they are their team's Cap casualty.

There was a reason he was elevated so young, and the idea is to continue up the ladder to replace a top four pair player.
Look at the guys in front and you see why he hasn't.

I wouldn't get too excited yet....unless his agent has him asking 5 million when his deal ends in Spring 2015.

Whether his game is slowly declining or not, I've gone on record of taking a chance w/Dion for my team w/an expense of Bailey being involved only bc of contract status. Grant it, I've said Dion could regress in the last 2-3yrs, who know could get worse in another year instead, but I'll give Dion another good 3-4 more years before I think he'll regress completely or maybe not....
- Ur Not Me

again, his decline/lack of passion is just my personal opinion

he might play a more passionate game if he was on a winning team playing for the cup, which would make him a great fit for the islanders