Lee wouldn't be in a discussion for Oduya, not even a consideration. If Hawks are looking for cap relief and Isles are the trading partner the only thing I can see swapped is picks or players such as Donovan or Hickey which are Dman who have no salary. For any part of Lee, Frans or someone of that type of value you need to start w/Hammer or guys on his value level. Like I have said plenty of times a trade between the 2 teams cant happen bc you don't have the cap space or depth on D to part with.
- Ur Not Me

Sorry I wasn't clear. Meant those names in respect to the larger package discussed. Agree Lee for Oduya wouldn't hunt for the same reason Saad for Nielsen makes no sense.

Also, we may be discussing proposals but let's avoid absolutes like "any part of Lee, Frans or someone of that type of value you need to start w/Hammer or guys on his value level"... You don't know Snow's mind and you definitely do not know Bowman's. Every proposal I have posted has been based on player stats and age. You post up that Lee or Nielsen would have to start at Hammer or his value level just show how little you know of Bowman. Hammer's contract, age and performance make his "value level" almost on a par with Saad and maybe even Kane for Stan.

You sit there talking about Anders Lee requiring Hammer back in trade. How can you even rank Lee and Nielsen together?

No, Neilsen is not better than Kesler. That is just homer-ism.

PS: Send my best to "blacklistville". I'm LMAO at him. Totally deserved.
- tredbrta

I am sure he is in a better place.

I am sure he is in a better place.
- Elbows15

I'm sure it helps to think he is. I am still lovin it.

"Black list"..... The irony is absolutely on a generational scale.

Sorry I wasn't clear. Meant those names in respect to the larger package discussed. Agree Lee for Oduya wouldn't hunt for the same reason Saad for Nielsen makes no sense.
- tredbrta

Not trying to play the homer card but some of the young kids on roster plus whats in the pipeline, the F position for isles is stacked. Now the D prospects are loaded but not sure what or how most would pan out. That's why the isles are looking for NHL defensive dmen to bridge the gap to the kids.

I'm sure it helps to think he is. I am still lovin it.

"Black list".....




- tredbrta

Yeah but then you think Leddy is a top pairing D-man and would be a PPG player in the "right" system". There is that.

Yeah but then you think Leddy is a top pairing D-man and would be a PPG player in the "right" system". There is that.
- Elbows15

Try rereading the original post. Try it slowly and pronounce the words. It may help you understand better and even remember accurately.

The irony of "black list" is still just classic.

Sorry I wasn't clear. Meant those names in respect to the larger package discussed. Agree Lee for Oduya wouldn't hunt for the same reason Saad for Nielsen makes no sense.

Also, we may be discussing proposals but let's avoid absolutes like "any part of Lee, Frans or someone of that type of value you need to start w/Hammer or guys on his value level"... You don't know Snow's mind and you definitely do not know Bowman's. Every proposal I have posted has been based on player stats and age. You post up that Lee or Nielsen would have to start at Hammer or his value level just show how little you know of Bowman. Hammer's contract, age and performance make his "value level" almost on a par with Saad and maybe even Kane for Stan.

You sit there talking about Anders Lee requiring Hammer back in trade. How can you even rank Lee and Nielsen together?
- tredbrta

Lee with the limited amount of games has produced goals in a short sample size plus has a nose for the net. If the isles could clear 1 or 2 F positions by opening night, Lee would start but bc of the 2way contract status he will start in AHL probably.
Neilsen has become a very good 2way F and his point production has increased in his past 2 years. With his versatility plus cheap contract playing 2C has increased his value.
Grant it, I understand how you value point production & age, etc and I take those into consideration as well. Plus I never said an even swap either, more like players being mentioned as a start of a deal is more of my point of getting value measured.

I know Hammer's value and I'm not trying to minimize it either, the perfect trade to me between both teams would be

Neilsen & Mayfield = Hammer but bc the Hawks don't have depth at D to trade that's why it wont happen.
U know what Neilsen is and having him play w/Kane is what the team needed before the signing of Richards.
Mayfield is almost the same mold as Hammer, big kid who's projected to be a shutdown 3-5 Dman. like how Hammer started out.

Now if hawks need cap relief and isles seem like a partner, like I've said prior then just expect picks back w/maybe 1 of the Dmen that have no salary in Donovan or Hickey. Personally I think Donovan is almost the same mold as Leddy. that's why I keep saying isles don't need a leddy bc we have similar type on team, more like Oduya but as you can see, those type of Dmen going into last year of contract usually fetch a pick/picks back (which his age also come into consideration) he's not going to be a young FA if u get my point?

I am hardly undervaluing Nielsen at all. He is a solid 2C and would look great here. You are undervaluing Leddy. The Hawks have an established top 4 - among the best in the league. To sit there and "project" Leddy as "mediocre at best" is just monumentally ignorant. Leddy just turned 23. With a real role he could be a top pairing d man and with top 4 minutes in the right system should be a to PPG d man for years to come. Take a look at what Brian Campbell did the year after he moved out of the Hawk's system. That could easily be Leddy (offensively) but he is 8 years younger.

You see a lot of trashing of him on Hawks boards but that is when he is having to compare to Hjallmerson, Keith, Seabrook and Oduya on a nightly basis. All of those players are in their prime.
- tredbrta

You mean this? Try to remember the poop you spew out of your ass.

Interesting. The problem with taking back Bailey is that it doesn't help the Hawks salary cap issue, in fact it increases the problem by another $600k...lol. Donovan and a third is nice as the Hawks could stash Donovan in Rockford for a year or keep him up if they sent TT down as the salary juuuusssst works to clear the cap and replace Leddy as the 5th damn (rotate Rozsival, Rundblad and Donovan).

However, I have to claim ignorance on Donovan. Am I really getting value for Donovan and a 3rd (plus another TBD asset) for a young and developing defenseman who has Stanley Cup Champion experience?

Who would you include beside Bailey? Stan has returned your call and is willing to listen. But he's sorry, he can't take back Bailey's salary.
- MNHawk

You need cap relief then put sharp in the mix
Leddy and sharp
Bailey, Donovan, 2015 3rd pick, 2016 2nd pick

You don't see it as kinda odd?
- Jeropotato

That you 2 brought it to my attention?

Very odd.

XxNYIxX

Good thing your aren't a GM. That would be an all out steal for Sharp. He is one of your top 3 players immediately.
- tredbrta

I never said he wouldn't be, but unless we are turning around and trading him for a top 2 D-men... how does getting him help us?

XxNYIxX

Yes, and you are the know it all car owner who likes to tell the mechanic how to do his job. It is all a matter of perspective.

Check the Isles record and top 6. You post as if you have a contender all lined up and ready to roll. Saw the same kind of posts last summer - sort of agreed with them.

The truth is you have a young team badly led and badly coached. The Hawks have cap issues but are still a young team. Some in Chicago see the cap flex they need coming from a 2nd tier salary hit like Sharp rather than from trades of large number of players. They want to remain a young team so Sharp looks like the guy.

Hossa was a key pick up for the young Hawks. He shifted the entire dynamic in the room. Sharp could possibly be the same for the Isles. That is the rationale I see from a few who have suggested the Isles being a fit for Sharp.

I suppose we could talk about a Seabrook trade. He has also been mentioned as a down the road cap casualty but then you are talking about a major package including multiple picks and prospects plus rostered players. Seabrook though, unlike Sharp and Leddy, has never been rumored to be moved so why bother?

Key point - Leddy and Sharp are discussed because there have been reports they are available.
- tredbrta

Just because they are available... doesn't mean that the Island is the right fit for a deal.

I never said we had a contender lined up or have I ever said that Sharp isnt good enough for the Isles.. Its just not a good fit right now.

XxNYIxX

You need cap relief then put sharp in the mix
Leddy and sharp
Bailey, Donovan, 2015 3rd pick, 2016 2nd pick
- Larry079

You need cap relief then put sharp in the mix
Leddy and sharp
Bailey, Donovan, 2015 3rd pick, 2016 2nd pick
- Larry079

Since I am acting in proxy (role-playing) I can say Stan's not interested in that deal. Not even kinda.

He has Columbus and Arizona on the phone right now. They are young on defense in their bottom two pairs and could use some Stanley Cup blue line experience, so he's looking at moving a defenseman using that route right now.

Sharp is not on the table. Stan is looking to move one defenseman and is looking to deal.

If the NYI need a defenseman, Stan's still interested in discussing a deal, but for now it's off.

I never said he wouldn't be, but unless we are turning around and trading him for a top 2 D-men... how does getting him help us?

XxNYIxX
- XxNYIxX

I understand that a winger is not needed more than a D man....but to say a winger of his quality wouldn't help the Islanders is simple not true. Would he not be one of the top 3 or 4 forwards on the Team?
I get it though, if you have so much to spend on upgrades you might as well save it.

I understand that a winger is not needed more than a D man....but to say a winger of his quality wouldn't help the Islanders is simple not true. Would he not be one of the top 3 or 4 forwards on the Team?
I get it though, if you have so much to spend on upgrades you might as well save it.
- Jeropotato

Exactly.. I would love a player like Sharp, but we can not afford him at the expense of a more glaring need.
The first line will do fine without sharp, yes it could do better with him.. but it will be fine without him. SO if I have limited resources to move, I need to move those resources for an absolute need.

XxNYIxX

Exactly.. I would love a player like Sharp, but we can not afford him at the expense of a more glaring need.
The first line will do fine without sharp, yes it could do better with him.. but it will be fine without him. SO if I have limited resources to move, I need to move those resources for an absolute need.

XxNYIxX
- XxNYIxX

Here I thought the Isles had a ton of forwards/prospects, but really, I don't know who you have beyond the active roster.
Same thing in Edmonton, we can't really make a trade for a Center without creating a hole on the Wing/Defense, etc

You need cap relief then put sharp in the mix
Leddy and sharp
Bailey, Donovan, 2015 3rd pick, 2016 2nd pick
- Larry079

Honestly, I don't think you get anywhere close to Leddy OR Sharp for that.

the most valuable parts of that deal are the picks. Bailey and Donovan carry pretty close to no value.

Since I am acting in proxy (role-playing) I can say Stan's not interested in that deal. Not even kinda.

He has Columbus and Arizona on the phone right now. They are young on defense in their bottom two pairs and could use some Stanley Cup blue line experience, so he's looking at moving a defenseman using that route right now.

Sharp is not on the table. Stan is looking to move one defenseman and is looking to deal.

If the NYI need a defenseman, Stan's still interested in discussing a deal, but for now it's off.
- MNHawk[/quote


Donovan and a 3rd round pick
For Leddy

Garth Snow had a great offseason for us. Most of the non-HockeyBuzz NYI fans (the ones who can actually argue a point and now blow up over the internet) think Garth had an excellent summer and is a top 4 defenseman away from having a career summer for this team.

He addressed and added legitimate goaltending with Halak and Johnson
Solidified our top-9 by adding Grabovski and Kulemin
Increased competition at camp this fall by 10-fold...now Bailey, Grabner, and some of our youth realize they aren't shoe-ins for positions this year...they have to PROVE THEIR WORTH with the depth we have.

The only short-fall for Garth was addressing our defense. There still 2.5 months left for him to make a move and we have 26 players under 1-way contracts...something will happen during training camp/pre-season...

Lets relax on the NYI for the rest of the summer Ek...nothing will happen until September/October with them.
- kcNYI

Problem is : Grabosky should have received 3M and Kulemin 2 !!! terrible contracts !!!

Problem is : Grabosky should have received 3M and Kulemin 2 !!! terrible contracts !!!
- Xizord

What did Ellers sign for?

Nielsen has been the better player the last two seasons..
potentially even 3. Nielsen has never had quality line mates to play with.
- Danformo

and has little upside.


Can you say the same about Saad?

Nielsen wishes he was as strong or fast on his skates as Saad.

and has little upside.


Can you say the same about Saad?

Nielsen wishes he was as strong or fast on his skates as Saad.
- wiz1901

XxNYIxX