That's where you are wrong. There is a local radio station here and they have someone who is very good at the data side. However he came out and said he would not trade Zemgus Girgensons for the #1 pick last year (Makinnon) and there is another host who flat out said he doesn't need to watch the games. He was discussing Tyler Myers.

Sure these are just radio guys and in no position to make changes with teams but these guys saying this just builds traction and takes away from very knowledgeable fan bases who actually watch the games and knows what to look for. Maybe not as much as a scout but I think you get my point.
- Stripes77

At this point it's really only fans and blogger who take extreme views on analytics. It has yet to be used by a front office (at least at the NHL level) to build a team

My problem is that it's far from an exact science. I remember there was a blog pointing out how Anton Stralman is actually better than Marc Staal because Stralman's possession #s got better away from Staal, while Staal's possession #s got worse away from Stralman. Anyone with eyes can tell Staal is a much better much more important player than Stralman.

I also believe the same could have been said about the Doughty -Muzzin pairing. Apparently (I'm not researching this right now) Muzzin's #s are better away from Doughty while Doughty's get worse away from Muzzin.......So really how important are the numbers when conclusions like that can be derived from it?
- sbroads24

You and I are in agreement on this topic. This is not baseball. It's not pitcher vs hitter. Stats can lie.

You and I are in agreement on this topic. This is not baseball. It's not pitcher vs hitter. Stats can lie.
- Stripes77

Stats can be useful when used in conjunction with other observations . To solely rely on stats in building a team is a sure way to get a high level lottery pick on a yearly basis.

That's where you are wrong. There is a local radio station here and they have someone who is very good at the data side. However he came out and said he would not trade Zemgus Girgensons for the #1 pick last year (Makinnon) and there is another host who flat out said he doesn't need to watch the games. He was discussing Tyler Myers.

Sure these are just radio guys and in no position to make changes with teams but these guys saying this just builds traction and takes away from very knowledgeable fan bases who actually watch the games and knows what to look for. Maybe not as much as a scout but I think you get my point.
- Stripes77

Gunner lives in Rochester, I'm sure he knows who you're talking about. His point was, though, that any true "expert" with analytics would never say those thing, just people who are trying to look like it.

I didn't see that. Did It break it down to individual players or was it a team breakdown?
- sbroads24

It was a while ago, so I may not have it right, but I recall it as a team wide thing: like "When a team is able to effectively clear the D zone (actually results in possession on the other side of the red line, or something) with its first pass more than ___% of the time, that teams winning percentage in those games is XY%." and after an entry, if a team can possess the puck for more than 20(?) seconds in the opponents offensive zone ___% of the time, that teams winning percentage is AB%"

And the XY% was like, 65 or something really high, and AB was similar. When a team did both (clear and enter) the combined winning percentage was something astronomically close to 100.

It was stuff that seemed self evident and simple when I took time to consider it, but I had never taken the time to consider it, and it was impossible to argue against. It's changed the way I watch the game in some ways.

It was a while ago, so I may not have it right, but I recall it as a team wide thing: like "When a team is able to effectively clear the D zone (actually results in possession on the other side of the red line, or something) with its first pass more than ___% of the time, that teams winning percentage in those games is XY%." and after an entry, if a team can possess the puck for more than 20(?) seconds in the opponents offensive zone ___% of the time, that teams winning percentage is AB%"

And the XY% was like, 65 or something really high, and AB was similar. When a team did both (clear and enter) the combined winning percentage was something astronomically close to 100.

It was stuff that seemed self evident and simple when I took time to consider it, but I had never taken the time to consider it, and it was impossible to argue against. It's changed the way I watch the game in some ways.
- Der Kaiser

The "team" aspect of analytics is more clear cut to me.

What I find the most interesting is honestly just looking at what players face the toughest comp. or who has more defensive responsibilities.

It was a while ago, so I may not have it right, but I recall it as a team wide thing: like "When a team is able to effectively clear the D zone (actually results in possession on the other side of the red line, or something) with its first pass more than ___% of the time, that teams winning percentage in those games is XY%." and after an entry, if a team can possess the puck for more than 20(?) seconds in the opponents offensive zone ___% of the time, that teams winning percentage is AB%"

And the XY% was like, 65 or something really high, and AB was similar. When a team did both (clear and enter) the combined winning percentage was something astronomically close to 100.

It was stuff that seemed self evident and simple when I took time to consider it, but I had never taken the time to consider it, and it was impossible to argue against. It's changed the way I watch the game in some ways.
- Der Kaiser

Exactly. Good Analytics will do that, and they should. It should be the base from which you make decisions. When you add observations and less quantifiable information you get a very well rounded picture of what really 'is'.

It becomes more about what you really know, more than what you think you know

Gunner lives in Rochester, I'm sure he knows who you're talking about. His point was, though, that any true "expert" with analytics would never say those thing, just people who are trying to look like it.
- stashu

I know what he means which is why I added the people that say those things aren't in position to make changes statement. What bothers me is Everyday Joe starts eating this information up and it just keeps growing and growing, and as a fan that knows the game pretty well it drives me crazy when people start talking "Corsi" and believe it is the end all be all.

It diminishes the sport IMO that everyday fans start using these advanced stats as conversation. Go watch a game and enjoy the sport!

"Germ Theory" has finally arrived in the NHL. Analytics won't go away, people will just stop whining about it. And once they do, it just won't be newsworthy anymore.

"Plan-B is to be hard to play against. To have character guys in the room," Murray answered himself. "We're going to be adding two or three young guys for the next three or four years. Do we just leave it to them to learn how to be good pros? Or do we have people in the room that show them how to become good pros.

"That's not the analytics movement pretty guy. That's the reality"

How appropriate that the worst possession team in the league over the past few seasons wants to dismiss the importance of possession stats. Sure Murray, just ignore Big Corsi and it'll all go away.

As for "being hard to play against," there's nothing hard about playing against bad hockey players. A guy like Scott can punch faces, but not if he's busy getting his ankles broken by players who are actually good at hockey. Keep stockpiling those grinders, you're helping out the rest of the division!

Also, I love the complete denial that's going on right now. Two analytics bloggers have just been hired by NHL teams because they value their knowledge and expertise. Meanwhile, a bunch of retired NHL players with infinitely more "real hockey experience" (and online bloggers with no clue) are sulking behind their sports news desks and trying to dismiss the importance of a movement that's growing more and more every day. Accept it, hockey analytics is here, and it's here to stay.

How appropriate that the worst possession team in the league over the past few seasons wants to dismiss the importance of possession stats. Sure Murray, just ignore Big Corsi and it'll all go away.

As for "being hard to play against," there's nothing hard about playing against bad hockey players. A guy like Scott can punch faces, but not if he's busy getting his ankles broken by players who are actually good at hockey. Keep stockpiling those grinders, you're helping out the rest of the division!
Also, I love the complete denial that's going on right now. Two analytics bloggers have just been hired by NHL teams because they value their knowledge and expertise. Meanwhile, a bunch of retired NHL players with infinitely more "real hockey experience" (and online bloggers with no clue) are sulking behind their sports news desks and trying to dismiss the importance of a movement that's growing more and more every day. Accept it, hockey analytics is here, and it's here to stay.
- MrData

"Looks for John Scott on current roster, dismisses rest of post"

"Looks for John Scott on current roster, dismisses rest of post"
- sbroads24

You had to get that far in??

How appropriate that the worst possession team in the league over the past few seasons wants to dismiss the importance of possession stats. Sure Murray, just ignore Big Corsi and it'll all go away.

As for "being hard to play against," there's nothing hard about playing against bad hockey players. A guy like Scott can punch faces, but not if he's busy getting his ankles broken by players who are actually good at hockey. Keep stockpiling those grinders, you're helping out the rest of the division!

Also, I love the complete denial that's going on right now. Two analytics bloggers have just been hired by NHL teams because they value their knowledge and expertise. Meanwhile, a bunch of retired NHL players with infinitely more "real hockey experience" (and online bloggers with no clue) are sulking behind their sports news desks and trying to dismiss the importance of a movement that's growing more and more every day. Accept it, hockey analytics is here, and it's here to stay.
- MrData

I don't think he means literal toughness, he's probably referring more to players like Girgensons than a guy like scott. Players with actual value who are tough to stop on the ice versus a guy who is just tough.

More bidders now:

According to Tim Graham of the Buffalo News, the trust responsible for selling the franchise from Ralph Wilson’s estate will begin to conduct meetings with as many as eight prospective buyers in the next three weeks.

http://profootballtalk.nb...have-up-to-eight-suitors/

"Looks for John Scott on current roster, dismisses rest of post"
- sbroads24

I don't think that is the real MrData.. I saw him twitch.

More bidders now:

According to Tim Graham of the Buffalo News, the trust responsible for selling the franchise from Ralph Wilson’s estate will begin to conduct meetings with as many as eight prospective buyers in the next three weeks.

http://profootballtalk.nb...have-up-to-eight-suitors/
- stashu

Craaaap

"Looks for John Scott on current roster, dismisses rest of post"
- sbroads24

Dismiss my post all you want, but while a garbage team like Edmonton is at least on the right track to getting better, your garbage team (the worst in the league by far) is only getting worse. I hope you'll enjoy losing for at least the next five years!

Great article. This BLOGGER is becoming a source of real information, not just a chat room. Great work.
- Der Kaiser

Fixed

Dismiss my post all you want, but while a garbage team like Edmonton is at least on the right track to getting better, your garbage team (the worst in the league by far) is only getting worse. I hope you'll enjoy losing for at least the next five years!
- MrData

I did, and I stopped reading this one again. For all I know you complimented me and the Sabres.

Dismiss my post all you want, but while a garbage team like Edmonton is at least on the right track to getting better, your garbage team (the worst in the league by far) is only getting worse. I hope you'll enjoy losing for at least the next five years!
- MrData

Yeah the Sabres are so screwed. No one wants to play here, they have zero prospects, no quality draft picks coming up, an absent GM, No cap space, a terrible arena, a un-committed owner who is dead broke and doesn't care about sports or the city. The fan experience is really going to suck the next five years.

Dismiss my post all you want, but while a garbage team like Edmonton is at least on the right track to getting better, your garbage team (the worst in the league by far) is only getting worse. I hope you'll enjoy losing for at least the next five years!
- MrData

How so?

Dismiss my post all you want, but while a garbage team like Edmonton is at least on the right track to getting better, your garbage team (the worst in the league by far) is only getting worse. I hope you'll enjoy losing for at least the next five years!
- MrData

Wow . You are just wrong . But thanks for stopping by.

Yeah the Sabres are so screwed. No one wants to play here, they have zero prospects, no quality draft picks coming up, an absent GM, No cap space, a terrible arena, a un-committed owner who is dead broke and doesn't care about sports or the city. The fan experience is really going to suck the next five years.
- Buffalo-Sabres

Wow . You are just wrong . But thanks for stopping by.



- Maximum Signal

Its obvious the scrubs are clutching at straws to talk trash calling us the worst team in the league.

- ImThatGuy

tiny bit