Thats cause he didnt. Im using him as a reference. Do you think it was by mistake that his +/- was always good?
- GOA88

Nope, but I think the team was a much better 5 on 5 team when Pronger was here. And Pronger was a big part of that. But it's still a team number. And really you're comparing a hall of fame player to Coburn.

Unless he has something against money, I'd say the chances are nil. They can still just put him on LTIR too and continue spending into "option 2".
- Tomahawk

That's what I expect to happen.

He is available.
- GOA88

He wasn't available when Kimmo was healthy and he certainly isn't available now.

- BulliesPhan87

Coburn is a solid defenseman. He skates extremely well for a big man. He lacks consistency, and doesn't have much of an offensive game. He's a good player, signed to a good contract. But he's the Flyers # 1 dman by default. I'm not sure he would be a # 1 on more than a half dozen teams in the NHL.

How isn't it? I brought up the name (Hatcher) which might be a reach but by a lot. Your trying to defend your argument but are doing a poor job.
- SuperSchennBros

How on earth am I doing a poor job? You have no argument whatsoever. Coburn was'nt, is'nt or will ever be as good as Hatcher. Period.

That is what we are debating, is it not?

Nope, but I think the team was a much better 5 on 5 team when Pronger was here. And Pronger was a big part of that. But it's still a team number. And really you're comparing a hall of fame player to Coburn.
- MJL

The point I am making is Coburn is not a stud on defense. He may be the Flyers best defenseman but thats really not saying much.

That's what I expect to happen.
- Feanor

So when can he be put him on LTIR?

I'm assuming he will not be collecting his 4M bonuses and will therefore not count on overage next season.

Just realized the answer is the same as Pronger. I now need a complete update on their options. JC.

That's what I expect to happen.
- Feanor

From 30 Teams in 30 Days, post MDZ:

"We're going to be under," Hextall said. "There's nothing pressing for us. We don't have to get rid of a player, and at this stage I don't necessarily envision us getting rid of a player. Things can change in a hurry, but I like our team."

That last part is hilarious.

- aightwebang17

- BulliesPhan87

He looks like the kind of guy that takes upskirt shots in office buildings staircases.
- johndewar

I disagree; he looks nothing like me.

TRADE COBURN FOR HARTNELL!!!!

Debate.

So when can he be put him on LTIR?

I'm assuming he will not be collecting his 4M bonuses and will therefore not count on overage next season.
- coffee junkie

They've still got ~$600k of Pronger's LTIR allotment available... unless they spend beyond that before day 1, they can just keep Kimmo on regular IR and invoke LTIR only when/if they need it during the season.

If he doesn't play, yeah, the p-bonuses are null.

Should drop Rinaldo for a pick, add Penner for cheap.

How on earth am I doing a poor job? You have no argument whatsoever. Coburn was'nt, is'nt or will ever be as good as Hatcher. Period.

That is what we are debating, is it not?
- GOA88

I don't think the margin between Hatcher and Coburn within their primes is as large as you seem to think. Hatcher had a Hall of Fame goalie in Ed Belfour. Hall of fame two way forwards in Mike Modano and Joe Nieuwendyk. Derian Hatcher also had Sergei Zubov. I suppose I'm forgetting about Kirk Muller Carbonneau, also solid two way forwards. Brenden Morrow was a solid two way up and comer. Then considering Ken Hitchcock was then and still is one of the best defense first coaches in the league. Philly doesn't have any of this right now outside of Giroux.

Should drop Rinaldo for a pick, add Penner for cheap.
- hereticpride

I'm with you on the first part, soundly against you on the second. For a guy who has the history/production of Penner, there's a reason or reasons why he's still available. Either he doesn't want to come for "cheap" or there's underlying issues that teams are shying away from.

I'm with you on the first part, soundly against you on the second. For a guy who has the history/production of Penner, there's a reason or reasons why he's still available. Either he doesn't want to come for "cheap" or there's underlying issues that teams are shying away from.
- jmatchett383

Slow... and fat... and inconsistent.

He's a hilarious teammate, though... probably trumps even Hartsy in that dept.

I agree. An extra season of Timonen would have bought them time to fill the hole. Even in a reduced role, I still think he would have been a huge part of the team.

If Schenn & Couturier can step up, missing Hartnell isn't a big deal, but they're really going to be in trouble on defense. They had two guys who they could count on in all situations. Now there's really only Coburn
- Jsaquella

Wouldn't be surprised to see them make the playoffs in a 7-8 position nor would I be surprised to see them miss the playoffs. Honestly Hexy is going to need time to fix this. Homer did a lot of good at the beginning but he also did a lot of bad lately. I just hope Ed stays clear of this and allows Hexy to do what he needs to do.

I don't think the margin between Hatcher and Coburn within their primes is as large as you seem to think. Hatcher had a Hall of Fame goalie in Ed Belfour. Hall of fame two way forwards in Mike Modano and Joe Nieuwendyk. Derian Hatcher also had Sergei Zubov. I suppose I'm forgetting about Kirk Muller Carbonneau, also solid two way forwards. Brenden Morrow was a solid two way up and comer. Then considering Ken Hitchcock was then and still is one of the best defense first coaches in the league. Philly doesn't have any of this right now outside of Giroux.
- SuperSchennBros

Derian Hatcher is better than Coburn. The space of that void cannot be calculated, as Hatcher played in a completely different era when he was in his prime, before his knees disintegrated. If Coburn played in an era where you could hook/hold/trip/punch your way to the puck, he would be much more effective. How much more is debatable. SO no, he isn't/wouldn't be as good as Hatcher in his prime, but they style they played and the rules they played within are fairly night and day.

Wouldn't be surprised to see them make the playoffs in a 7-8 position nor would I be surprised to see them miss the playoffs. Honestly Hexy is going to need time to fix this. Homer did a lot of good at the beginning but he also did a lot of bad lately. I just hope Ed stays clear of this and allows Hexy to do what he needs to do.
- nastyflyergirl

They're definitely a bubble team. The scary thing is that the rest of the division got better (in general) this offseason and the Flyers have, at best, maintained.

So when can he be put him on LTIR?

I'm assuming he will not be collecting his 4M bonuses and will therefore not count on overage next season.

- coffee junkie

His max bonus was $1.5m, and they were for games played so he won't get any of them now. Not sure where you got $4m from.

http://www.capgeek.com/player/746

His max bonus was $1.5m, and they were for games played so he won't get any of them now. Not sure where you got $4m from.

http://www.capgeek.com/player/746
- Feanor

It's the new math, where you multiply everything by 2.6

It's the new math, where you multiply everything by 2.6
- jmatchett383

Cool. Then I make six figures now.