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Forums :: Blog World :: Bill Meltzer: Timonen's Hockey Future is Cloudy; Flyers Sign Del Zotto
Author Message
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Aug 6 @ 10:47 AM ET
Thats cause he didnt. Im using him as a reference. Do you think it was by mistake that his +/- was always good?
- GOA88



Nope, but I think the team was a much better 5 on 5 team when Pronger was here. And Pronger was a big part of that. But it's still a team number. And really you're comparing a hall of fame player to Coburn.
Feanor
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: DE
Joined: 02.13.2013

Aug 6 @ 10:48 AM ET
Unless he has something against money, I'd say the chances are nil. They can still just put him on LTIR too and continue spending into "option 2".
- Tomahawk


That's what I expect to happen.
BulliesPhan87
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: the lone wolf of hockeybuzz
Joined: 07.31.2009

Aug 6 @ 10:48 AM ET
Feanor
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: DE
Joined: 02.13.2013

Aug 6 @ 10:49 AM ET
He is available.
- GOA88


He wasn't available when Kimmo was healthy and he certainly isn't available now.
aightwebang17
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Typical Montreal, PA
Joined: 07.10.2008

Aug 6 @ 10:52 AM ET

- BulliesPhan87

PLindbergh31
Location: NJ
Joined: 02.01.2008

Aug 6 @ 10:53 AM ET
Coburn is a solid defenseman. He skates extremely well for a big man. He lacks consistency, and doesn't have much of an offensive game. He's a good player, signed to a good contract. But he's the Flyers # 1 dman by default. I'm not sure he would be a # 1 on more than a half dozen teams in the NHL.
GOA88
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Joined: 08.02.2013

Aug 6 @ 10:54 AM ET
How isn't it? I brought up the name (Hatcher) which might be a reach but by a lot. Your trying to defend your argument but are doing a poor job.
- SuperSchennBros

How on earth am I doing a poor job? You have no argument whatsoever. Coburn was'nt, is'nt or will ever be as good as Hatcher. Period.

That is what we are debating, is it not?
GOA88
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Joined: 08.02.2013

Aug 6 @ 10:55 AM ET
Nope, but I think the team was a much better 5 on 5 team when Pronger was here. And Pronger was a big part of that. But it's still a team number. And really you're comparing a hall of fame player to Coburn.
- MJL

The point I am making is Coburn is not a stud on defense. He may be the Flyers best defenseman but thats really not saying much.
coffee junkie
Joined: 02.25.2007

Aug 6 @ 10:55 AM ET
That's what I expect to happen.
- Feanor

So when can he be put him on LTIR?

I'm assuming he will not be collecting his 4M bonuses and will therefore not count on overage next season.

Just realized the answer is the same as Pronger. I now need a complete update on their options. JC.
Tomahawk
Ottawa Senators
Location: Driver's Seat: Mitch Marner bandwagon. Grab 'em by the Corsi.
Joined: 02.04.2009

Aug 6 @ 10:58 AM ET
That's what I expect to happen.
- Feanor


From 30 Teams in 30 Days, post MDZ:
"We're going to be under," Hextall said. "There's nothing pressing for us. We don't have to get rid of a player, and at this stage I don't necessarily envision us getting rid of a player. Things can change in a hurry, but I like our team."


That last part is hilarious.
BulliesPhan87
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: the lone wolf of hockeybuzz
Joined: 07.31.2009

Aug 6 @ 10:58 AM ET

- aightwebang17

Streit2ThePoint
Seattle Kraken
Location: it's disgusting how good you are at hockeybuzz.
Joined: 09.20.2013

Aug 6 @ 11:01 AM ET

- BulliesPhan87


jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Newark, DE
Joined: 03.09.2010

Aug 6 @ 11:05 AM ET
He looks like the kind of guy that takes upskirt shots in office buildings staircases.
- johndewar


I disagree; he looks nothing like me.
jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Newark, DE
Joined: 03.09.2010

Aug 6 @ 11:07 AM ET
TRADE COBURN FOR HARTNELL!!!!

Debate.
Tomahawk
Ottawa Senators
Location: Driver's Seat: Mitch Marner bandwagon. Grab 'em by the Corsi.
Joined: 02.04.2009

Aug 6 @ 11:08 AM ET
So when can he be put him on LTIR?

I'm assuming he will not be collecting his 4M bonuses and will therefore not count on overage next season.

- coffee junkie


They've still got ~$600k of Pronger's LTIR allotment available... unless they spend beyond that before day 1, they can just keep Kimmo on regular IR and invoke LTIR only when/if they need it during the season.

If he doesn't play, yeah, the p-bonuses are null.
hereticpride
New Jersey Devils
Location: HEY. Does this pole still work?, NJ
Joined: 01.14.2011

Aug 6 @ 11:08 AM ET
Should drop Rinaldo for a pick, add Penner for cheap.
SuperSchennBros
Location: Not protected by the Mods...I mean Mob. Take your best shot!
Joined: 09.01.2012

Aug 6 @ 11:13 AM ET
How on earth am I doing a poor job? You have no argument whatsoever. Coburn was'nt, is'nt or will ever be as good as Hatcher. Period.

That is what we are debating, is it not?

- GOA88

I don't think the margin between Hatcher and Coburn within their primes is as large as you seem to think. Hatcher had a Hall of Fame goalie in Ed Belfour. Hall of fame two way forwards in Mike Modano and Joe Nieuwendyk. Derian Hatcher also had Sergei Zubov. I suppose I'm forgetting about Kirk Muller Carbonneau, also solid two way forwards. Brenden Morrow was a solid two way up and comer. Then considering Ken Hitchcock was then and still is one of the best defense first coaches in the league. Philly doesn't have any of this right now outside of Giroux.
jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Newark, DE
Joined: 03.09.2010

Aug 6 @ 11:14 AM ET
Should drop Rinaldo for a pick, add Penner for cheap.
- hereticpride


I'm with you on the first part, soundly against you on the second. For a guy who has the history/production of Penner, there's a reason or reasons why he's still available. Either he doesn't want to come for "cheap" or there's underlying issues that teams are shying away from.
Tomahawk
Ottawa Senators
Location: Driver's Seat: Mitch Marner bandwagon. Grab 'em by the Corsi.
Joined: 02.04.2009

Aug 6 @ 11:16 AM ET
I'm with you on the first part, soundly against you on the second. For a guy who has the history/production of Penner, there's a reason or reasons why he's still available. Either he doesn't want to come for "cheap" or there's underlying issues that teams are shying away from.
- jmatchett383


Slow... and fat... and inconsistent.

He's a hilarious teammate, though... probably trumps even Hartsy in that dept.
nastyflyergirl
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: this space for rent, PA
Joined: 09.19.2006

Aug 6 @ 11:16 AM ET
I agree. An extra season of Timonen would have bought them time to fill the hole. Even in a reduced role, I still think he would have been a huge part of the team.

If Schenn & Couturier can step up, missing Hartnell isn't a big deal, but they're really going to be in trouble on defense. They had two guys who they could count on in all situations. Now there's really only Coburn

- Jsaquella



Wouldn't be surprised to see them make the playoffs in a 7-8 position nor would I be surprised to see them miss the playoffs. Honestly Hexy is going to need time to fix this. Homer did a lot of good at the beginning but he also did a lot of bad lately. I just hope Ed stays clear of this and allows Hexy to do what he needs to do.
jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Newark, DE
Joined: 03.09.2010

Aug 6 @ 11:17 AM ET
I don't think the margin between Hatcher and Coburn within their primes is as large as you seem to think. Hatcher had a Hall of Fame goalie in Ed Belfour. Hall of fame two way forwards in Mike Modano and Joe Nieuwendyk. Derian Hatcher also had Sergei Zubov. I suppose I'm forgetting about Kirk Muller Carbonneau, also solid two way forwards. Brenden Morrow was a solid two way up and comer. Then considering Ken Hitchcock was then and still is one of the best defense first coaches in the league. Philly doesn't have any of this right now outside of Giroux.
- SuperSchennBros


Derian Hatcher is better than Coburn. The space of that void cannot be calculated, as Hatcher played in a completely different era when he was in his prime, before his knees disintegrated. If Coburn played in an era where you could hook/hold/trip/punch your way to the puck, he would be much more effective. How much more is debatable. SO no, he isn't/wouldn't be as good as Hatcher in his prime, but they style they played and the rules they played within are fairly night and day.
jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Newark, DE
Joined: 03.09.2010

Aug 6 @ 11:19 AM ET
Wouldn't be surprised to see them make the playoffs in a 7-8 position nor would I be surprised to see them miss the playoffs. Honestly Hexy is going to need time to fix this. Homer did a lot of good at the beginning but he also did a lot of bad lately. I just hope Ed stays clear of this and allows Hexy to do what he needs to do.
- nastyflyergirl


They're definitely a bubble team. The scary thing is that the rest of the division got better (in general) this offseason and the Flyers have, at best, maintained.
Feanor
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: DE
Joined: 02.13.2013

Aug 6 @ 11:20 AM ET
So when can he be put him on LTIR?

I'm assuming he will not be collecting his 4M bonuses and will therefore not count on overage next season.

- coffee junkie


His max bonus was $1.5m, and they were for games played so he won't get any of them now. Not sure where you got $4m from.

http://www.capgeek.com/player/746
jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Newark, DE
Joined: 03.09.2010

Aug 6 @ 11:20 AM ET
His max bonus was $1.5m, and they were for games played so he won't get any of them now. Not sure where you got $4m from.

http://www.capgeek.com/player/746

- Feanor


It's the new math, where you multiply everything by 2.6
Feanor
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: DE
Joined: 02.13.2013

Aug 6 @ 11:21 AM ET
It's the new math, where you multiply everything by 2.6
- jmatchett383


Cool. Then I make six figures now.
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