I'm tired of hearing and reading about corsi, sabremetrics, advanced statistics and any other algorithm associated with Bailey. The inly numbers that matter are goals, assists, poinfs and plus/minus. If those numbers are good, Bailey will have had a good season. If they are bad, Bailey will have had a bad season. Results. That's what matter.

I'm tired of hearing and reading about corsi, sabremetrics, advanced statistics and any other algorithm associated with Bailey. The inly numbers that matter are goals, assists, poinfs and plus/minus. If those numbers are good, Bailey will have had a good season. If they are bad, Bailey will have had a bad season. Results. That's what matter.
- Jethro09

That's pretty short-sighted. You don't have to love that kind of stuff but it has its uses. And it extends far beyond Josh Bailey.

There is no point in trading Bailey now. Garth can "shop him" all he wants, but the kid is signed for almost as many more years as goals scored last season and thus has zero value right now. The Isles are not up against the cap. I'd rather see him on the 4th line than dumped for nothing like Sam Gagner was.

I'm tired of hearing and reading about corsi, sabremetrics, advanced statistics and any other algorithm associated with Bailey. The inly numbers that matter are goals, assists, poinfs and plus/minus. If those numbers are good, Bailey will have had a good season. If they are bad, Bailey will have had a bad season. Results. That's what matter.
- Jethro09

Seconded.

Why is it that when a player has a fluky +/- rating we can all take it with a grain of salt but when it comes to shot-based stats, suddenly people doubt their own eyes and common sense and put more stock in the numbers?

Seconded.

Why is it that when a player has a fluky +/- rating we can all take it with a grain of salt but when it comes to shot-based stats, suddenly people doubt their own eyes and common sense and put more stock in the numbers?
- Snowblind

Why is it that everybody who opposes thinking outside the box assumes that those who consider advanced metrics valuable are soapboxing that it's the end-all-be-all of player evaluation? It's a useful tool* in helping to form an opinion on a player.


*Useful tool: As in, a chopsaw is a useful tool in building a house, but nobody is saying you can build a house using only that.

Why is it that everybody who opposes thinking outside the box assumes that those who consider advanced metrics valuable are soapboxing that it's the end-all-be-all of player evaluation? It's a useful tool* in helping to form an opinion on a player.


*Useful tool: As in, a chopsaw is a useful tool in building a house, but nobody is saying you can build a house using only that.
- eichiefs9

I built my house only using a chopsaw.

When shot-based stats tell me how good Jonathan Toews is or the Kings are, I believe them. When they tell me that Josh Bailey is good or that the Devils are better than the Penguins, then I don't, just like any other secondary statistic.

corsi and fenwick are not what bases are in baseball. They are more like QB passer ratings to my mind. They tend to overrate certain kinds of players and certain kinds of teams.

I built my house only using a chopsaw.
- Cptmjl

I legitimately thought that said "horse" not "house" and immediately burst out laughing.

When shot-based stats tell me how good Jonathan Toews is or the Kings are, I believe them. When they tell me that Josh Bailey is good or that the Devils are better than the Penguins, then I don't, just like any other secondary statistic.

corsi and fenwick are not what bases are in baseball. They are more like QB passer ratings to my mind. They tend to overrate certain kinds of players and certain kinds of teams.
- Snowblind

This is comical because you're clearly discounting things without even having the slightest idea of what they are. I'll spare you the extensive, complicated, time consuming process of "googling it" and just let you know that both Corsi and Fenwick are shot-based metrics.



And actually +/- is exponentially more comparable to QB passer ratings.

This is comical because you're clearly discounting things without even having the slightest idea of what they are. I'll spare you the extensive, complicated, time consuming process of Googling it and just let you know that both Corsi and Fenwick are shot-based metrics.



And actually +/- is exponentially more comparable to QB passer ratings.
- eichiefs9

+/- is misleading at times as we all know. If you have a knowledge of the player and the team he plays on. Along with the line and the normal pairing that's out behind them(if theyre a forward) it can be used as a reference. Funny but true.

+/- is misleading at times as we all know. If you have a knowledge of the player and the team he plays on. Along with the line and the normal pairing that's out behind them(if theyre a forward) it can be used as a reference. Funny but true.
- Cptmjl

Right and all of those things you just mentioned are what a lot of those advanced metrics are tracking. Quality of teammates/competition, etc...

All those advanced metrics are doing are taking the "big picture" and dissecting it down into smaller parts.

Too many people are closed-minded and afraid to admit that thinking differently might actually be somewhat valuable.

Right and all of those things you just mentioned are what a lot of those advanced metrics are tracking. Quality of teammates/competition, etc...

All those advanced metrics are doing are taking the "big picture" and dissecting it down into smaller parts.

Too many people are closed-minded and afraid to admit that thinking differently might actually be somewhat valuable.
- eichiefs9

Of course advanced stats can be useful, but they can be even more misleading that regular stats. Hockey isn't a static game like baseball. It's not easy to isolate aspects of the game like you can with a pitcher and batter.

Plus you are fighting an uphill battle in using advanced stats to defend Bailey.

Of course advanced stats can be useful, but they can be even more misleading that regular stats. Hockey isn't a static game like baseball. It's not easy to isolate aspects of the game like you can with a pitcher and batter.

Plus you are fighting an uphill battle in using advanced stats to defend Bailey.
- JimmyP

I'm not defending him, all I was saying was that he would be a useful 3rd liner. If calling a guy a decent bottom 6 forward is defending him then...I don't know.

I'm not defending him, all I was saying was that he would be a useful 3rd liner. If calling a guy a decent bottom 6 forward is defending him then...I don't know.
- eichiefs9

While I agree, I still would rather Lee in the lineup over Bailey. I want Lee on the team, not in Bridgeport.

While I agree, I still would rather Lee in the lineup over Bailey. I want Lee on the team, not in Bridgeport.
- David_Volek

Trade is coming. Bet on it.

Trade is coming. Bet on it.
- Cptmjl

Why is it that everybody who opposes thinking outside the box assumes that those who consider advanced metrics valuable are soapboxing that it's the end-all-be-all of player evaluation? It's a useful tool* in helping to form an opinion on a player.


*Useful tool: As in, a chopsaw is a useful tool in building a house, but nobody is saying you can build a house using only that.
- eichiefs9

I think the contractor that I got to build a second level on my house is using just a chop saw.. he might have a pair of pliers too (think they are needle nose).

XxNYIxX

I think Edmonton would take him off your hands as long as the price isn't steep.

Maybe Jimbro can help you answer this question in between his rage-fits and declarations of jihad on the Islanders.
- eichiefs9

This is one of the best responses ever!

"Finally the duck has come back to Hockeybuzzzzz". And just in time to. I see war has been declared due to wrong doings by X.

While I agree, I still would rather Lee in the lineup over Bailey. I want Lee on the team, not in Bridgeport.
- David_Volek

I 100% agree with you, but if a trade isn't made letting go of some of the isles forwards, Lee's 2way contract is sending him down. Sucks but it minimizes us losing players to waivers.

"Finally the duck has come back to Hockeybuzzzzz". And just in time to. I see war has been declared due to wrong doings by X.
- mighty13duck

Welcome back... im innocent.. i swear!!!



XxNYIxX

Ill be your Huckleberry!

XxNYIxX
- XxNYIxX

great movie

Welcome back... im innocent.. i swear!!!



XxNYIxX
- XxNYIxX

Do you think hedman is a generational talent?

That's pretty short-sighted. You don't have to love that kind of stuff but it has its uses. And it extends far beyond Josh Bailey.
- eichiefs9

Its not short sighted. It's a result based analysis. Who gives a s**t how many shots Bailey gets off or how long he dangles the puck for if he doesn't score and is on the ice for lots of goals against? Inever said advanced sstatistics don't matter, just that they're not as important as whether Bailey is productive. Goals, assists, points and plus/minus reveal if Bailey is productive. high possession numbers don't put pucks in the net. that's my point.