So u happy about getting clutterbuck then for nino. Nino didn't produce. We showed Minnesota up nicely on that one.

If bailey keeps putting up points guess what. Ennis won't pass him.
Lee needs some refining. Love his atheletism and nose for net. But he doesn't play complete game. Bailey disappointing till now but I wouldn't say he is a bust.
- Spartiarti

does anyone, including you, actually believe that comparing the nino situation to the bailey situation is level playing ground?

There's hostility in literally every major thread on this site right now

Jimbro al-Mujahideen is declaring a fatwa, via his goaltender suicide bomber, on Halak, the Flyers boys are circling the wagons around Andrew MacDonald, and I'm sure there is some sort of battle on the Leafs thread.
- eichiefs9

Oh yeah. Forgot. I replied to that one. I'm sure i caused some kind of explosion.

There's hostility in literally every major thread on this site right now

Jimbro al-Mujahideen is declaring a fatwa, via his goaltender suicide bomber, on Halak, the Flyers boys are circling the wagons around Andrew MacDonald, and I'm sure there is some sort of battle on the Leafs thread.
- eichiefs9

I think my favorite on that one is that a season of corsi isn't enough info, but watching him for 20 games is, minus the playoffs where his performance didn't count because everyone was bad.

...

As for bailey. Let's have this conversation in 2 more years.
- Spartiarti

Amac gone does not automatically make the team considerably better. He was asked to do too much. Thats the fault of coach & gm. He should have been #4 or 5 defensman on the team. Banking on Lubo CDh & Strait to play the full season healthy is reaching. Reinhart will make the team (IMO) but as a first year pro dont expect the moon. You also assume Garth will sign/acquire a quality top 4 vet on defense but the clock is ticking & camp opens in 3-4 weeks? You're a friggin eternal optimist, I'll give you that but as I said, with Crappy at the helm we can expect more of the same. The improvement will be missing playoffs by 6-8 points instead of 14.
- jmo16

-we'll agree to disagree that the team is/nt better without amac, personally i saw a MUCH different defensive team once he was gone but to each his own i guess.

-i dont expect the moon, in fact my exact quote was

take into consideration that it isnt a stretch to think that either reinhart or whoever they bring in will be better than last years #6 IE carkner.

-i dont "also" assume garth will sign/acquire a quality top 4 vet, in fact my exact quote was

take into consideration that it isnt a stretch to think that either reinhart or whoever they bring in will be better than last years #6 IE carkner.

"OR" being the operative word...and im saying they will fill (at worst) the 6th spot which will be an improvement from last years team (which was the original topic)

-am i an optimist? i guess some may call it that. i just look at my calendar and notice 2 months till opening night.

-somehow despite what the topic is, you are unable to separate the topic at hand without bring up capuano. the discussion was about the defense being better this year than last year. how is capuano involved in that?

-we'll agree to disagree that the team is/nt better without amac, personally i saw a MUCH different defensive team once he was gone but to each his own i guess.

-i dont expect the moon, in fact my exact quote was

-i dont "also" assume garth will sign/acquire a quality top 4 vet, in fact my exact quote was
"OR" being the operative word...and im saying they will fill (at worst) the 6th spot which will be an improvement from last years team (which was the original topic)

-am i an optimist? i guess some may call it that. i just look at my calendar and notice 2 months till opening night.

-somehow despite what the topic is, you are unable to separate the topic at hand without bring up capuano. the discussion was about the defense being better this year than last year. how is capuano involved in that?
- LetsGoIsles

I'd say in the same way a defense would be inherently better under a Barry Trotz-coached team versus a Scott Gordon-coached team. Structure, which comes from the coach and systems, is just as or maybe more important than the individual players.

I think my favorite on that one is that a season of corsi isn't enough info, but watching him for 20 games is, minus the playoffs where his performance didn't count because everyone was bad.
- Isles_since_6

When literally everyone including just about all that cover hockey think MacDonald is a heaping pile of donkey stool, except a bunch of fans on a hockey message board, there's probably something to it.

There's hostility in literally every major thread on this site right now

Jimbro al-Mujahideen is declaring a fatwa, via his goaltender suicide bomber, on Halak, the Flyers boys are circling the wagons around Andrew MacDonald, and I'm sure there is some sort of battle on the Leafs thread.
- eichiefs9

I don't venture into other threads all that often, so this is like my WWII movie theater newsreel.

I don't venture into other threads all that often, so this is like my WWII movie theater newsreel.
- UIF

Sometimes it's nice to do a little



in the Rangers thread.

I'd say in the same way a defense would be inherently better under a Barry Trotz-coached team versus a Scott Gordon-coached team. Structure, which comes from the coach and systems, is just as or maybe more important than the individual players.
- UIF

I suppose the question will be whether additions in other places for players who might fit the 'system' will ultimately help the defense. Both of our signings at forward brought in defensively responsible players who are very capable backcheckers and good skaters. I think it's reasonable to assume that better two way players may hold up better against transitional play despite having a forecheck first mentality for a system.

Backpressure can make a defense, and goaltender, so much more effective if the forwards are ensuring the opponentes don't have time and space. Frans and Grabs already do a decent job of this, adding Grabovski and Kulemin gives us two very solid two-way lines that 'should' make our defensemens job MUCH easier. By that standard, and an injection of more young talent, I think our defensive play should be much improved.

When literally everyone including just about all that cover hockey think MacDonald is a heaping pile of donkey stool, except a bunch of fans on a hockey message board, there's probably something to it.
- eichiefs9

I still don't get why they re-signed him. They had a first hand look.

I'd say in the same way a defense would be inherently better under a Barry Trotz-coached team versus a Scott Gordon-coached team. Structure, which comes from the coach and systems, is just as or maybe more important than the individual players.
- UIF

again, if the topic at hand is if the defensive core this season is better than last years defensive core than why cant coaching be separated from the topic. (and even for some reason people are unable to separate the two than take into consideration that the coaching staff is a constant both last season and this coming season)

are you really unable to separate coaching and defensemen or are you just trying to be difficult??

I suppose the question will be whether additions in other places for players who might fit the 'system' will ultimately help the defense. Both of our signings at forward brought in defensively responsible players who are very capable backcheckers and good skaters. I think it's reasonable to assume that better two way players may hold up better against transitional play despite having a forecheck first mentality for a system.

Backpressure can make a defense, and goaltender, so much more effective if the forwards are ensuring the opponentes don't have time and space. Frans and Grabs already do a decent job of this, adding Grabovski and Kulemin gives us two very solid two-way lines that 'should' make our defensemens job MUCH easier. By that standard, and an injection of more young talent, I think our defensive play should be much improved.
- keaner17

while i totally agree with you, its not the question.

the question has been (and im trying to keep it from changing) is THIS years defensemen better than last years??

I still don't get why they re-signed him. They had a first hand look.
- JimmyP

They're(Flyers management) facking morons. Some Philly fans say he fits their system well. I didn't watch every game he played for them but watched enough to see he still plays like a giant, steaming pile of shat for the Flyers. I don't know? Whatever makes them happy. I'm happy he's a Flyer and I'm sure every Ranger fan along with the fans of the 27 other teams are too. Looking forward to watching him do what he does.

I suppose the question will be whether additions in other places for players who might fit the 'system' will ultimately help the defense. Both of our signings at forward brought in defensively responsible players who are very capable backcheckers and good skaters. I think it's reasonable to assume that better two way players may hold up better against transitional play despite having a forecheck first mentality for a system.

Backpressure can make a defense, and goaltender, so much more effective if the forwards are ensuring the opponentes don't have time and space. Frans and Grabs already do a decent job of this, adding Grabovski and Kulemin gives us two very solid two-way lines that 'should' make our defensemens job MUCH easier. By that standard, and an injection of more young talent, I think our defensive play should be much improved.
- keaner17

Yep, that makes sense. I do think they'll be better in the neutral zone because of the forwards they'll have. We've seen Grabner and Frans do a good job of turning the puck back the other way very quickly, and Grabo and Kulemin will probably be able to do the same.

I don't know if it's the players or coaches that tell them to leave half a rink of space between the Isles' D and the other teams' forwards when opponents are on the rush, but hopefully they close that gap a bit this season and make it just a little harder to gain the zone.

My biggest concern is still once the other team inevitably sets up in the Isles' zone. They never look comfortable playing in their own zone, and that I think is a product of systems.

again, if the topic at hand is if the defensive core this season is better than last years defensive core than why cant coaching be separated from the topic. (and even for some reason people are unable to separate the two than take into consideration that the coaching staff is a constant both last season and this coming season)

are you really unable to separate coaching and defensemen or are you just trying to be difficult??
- LetsGoIsles

That's not the right conversation to have though, imo. The level of improvement is what matters. If the D is better this year compared to last year in the way that a car with only three wheels is better than one with only two...then sure. Both are still pretty useless though. The more important thing is whether the D is now good enough to actually hold a third-period lead, or prevent the team from going into an early hole. That's both players and systems...they're linked.

Yep, that makes sense. I do think they'll be better in the neutral zone because of the forwards they'll have. We've seen Grabner and Frans do a good job of turning the puck back the other way very quickly, and Grabo and Kulemin will probably be able to do the same.

I don't know if it's the players or coaches that tell them to leave half a rink of space between the Isles' D and the other teams' forwards when opponents are on the rush, but hopefully they close that gap a bit this season and make it just a little harder to gain the zone.

My biggest concern is still once the other team inevitably sets up in the Isles' zone. They never look comfortable playing in their own zone, and that I think is a product of systems.
- UIF

First bold was how I remember AMAC. I get mad just thinking about him allowing opposing forwards all the room in the world to do as they wish at our blue line. It used to drive me facking nuts. Second bold. 100% agree. Either it was a full on panic(which has led to some funny GIFS with our whole team piled in front of our tenders)or the most passive defensive scheme I've ever seen in my life.

Her own record will beat her. I didn't have a problem with her hubby, but she's a total twit.
I find it funny how folks refer to one party as being for rich old white people while the other party's leaders are Pelosi, Reid etc.

To the bottom of the sea with all of them. Curse the two party rule!
- keaner17

See we do agree n this!!

XxNYIxX

while i totally agree with you, its not the question.

the question has been (and im trying to keep it from changing) is THIS years defensemen better than last years??
- LetsGoIsles

Yeah, I wasn't really trying to answer a specific question. I was just making a statement and quoted UIF's comment since it was loosely related.

As for "Is the defense better than last year"
I'd say yes. If nothing else, just based on de Haan, Czurzman and Mayfield all having had a taste of the NHL game. Czurzman and Reinhart both are reportedly bigger. On top of that, all of these kids are a year older/wiser. For that alone, the corps should be better. Maybe not drastically, but improved none the less.

Yep, that makes sense. I do think they'll be better in the neutral zone because of the forwards they'll have. We've seen Grabner and Frans do a good job of turning the puck back the other way very quickly, and Grabo and Kulemin will probably be able to do the same.

I don't know if it's the players or coaches that tell them to leave half a rink of space between the Isles' D and the other teams' forwards when opponents are on the rush, but hopefully they close that gap a bit this season and make it just a little harder to gain the zone.

My biggest concern is still once the other team inevitably sets up in the Isles' zone. They never look comfortable playing in their own zone, and that I think is a product of systems.
- UIF

Agreed..but I do think the addition of some size with Czurzman and Reinhart can take care of that problem to a degree. Also better goaltending that will actually freeze the puck as opposed to kicking out juicy rebounds to sustain the pressure should help. Obviously ever team gets hemmed in, but we've seen it happen constantly over the last few years. This defensive corps is a very good skating group with lots of talent and 'smatz'.

Yeah, I wasn't really trying to answer a specific question. I was just making a statement and quoted UIF's comment since it was loosely related.

As for "Is the defense better than last year"
I'd say yes. If nothing else, just based on de Haan, Czurzman and Mayfield all having had a taste of the NHL game. Czurzman and Reinhart both are reportedly bigger. On top of that, all of these kids are a year older/wiser. For that alone, the corps should be better. Maybe not drastically, but improved none the less.
- keaner17

if our goaltending doesn't constantly give up softies like last year then we'll be a lot better as well. when we needed a save, we never got it.

That's not the right conversation to have though, imo. The level of improvement is what matters. If the D is better this year compared to last year in the way that a car with only three wheels is better than one with only two...then sure. Both are still pretty useless though. The more important thing is whether the D is now good enough to actually hold a third-period lead, or prevent the team from going into an early hole. That's both players and systems...they're linked.
- UIF

well thats what the conversation is...next time ill be sure to get your approval beforehand.

obviously making an assessment after something happens is easier than predicting what will happen but since its august 7th and the topics of discussion are currently suicide bombers and hilary clinton, i figured id start the discussion is todays defensive group is better than last years. if you cant separate the defense from the coaching staff and system then im not sure how you can ever blame a player (bailey, amac (pre-flyers days) when the "coaching staff and system" are the same for the entire team.

This morning?
- Cptmjl

Action Jackson was on last night!!!!!!!!!!

XxNYIxX

well thats what the conversation is...next time ill be sure to get your approval beforehand.

obviously making an assessment after something happens is easier than predicting what will happen but since its august 7th and the topics of discussion are currently suicide bombers and hilary clinton, i figured id start the discussion is todays defensive group is better than last years. if you cant separate the defense from the coaching staff and system then im not sure how you can ever blame a player (bailey, amac (pre-flyers days) when the "coaching staff and system" are the same for the entire team.
- LetsGoIsles

Too bad we can't get the two together...I KID!!!

well thats what the conversation is...next time ill be sure to get your approval beforehand.

obviously making an assessment after something happens is easier than predicting what will happen but since its august 7th and the topics of discussion are currently suicide bombers and hilary clinton, i figured id start the discussion is todays defensive group is better than last years. if you cant separate the defense from the coaching staff and system then im not sure how you can ever blame a player (bailey, amac (pre-flyers days) when the "coaching staff and system" are the same for the entire team.
- LetsGoIsles

have to agree, while I can't stand our coaching staff, if they get the players to play more responsible defensively as they did after the trade deadline, with the combination of much better goaltending, and no martinek, amac and hopefully no carkner, we should see improvement. It could be quite a bit improved although with so much youth there will be mistakes.

ideally, what I'd like to see if nothing changes and no trades are made (my first choice would be to make a move for an established top 4 defenseman)

hamonic dehaan
visnovsky czuczman
hickey reinhart

strait, donovan

that's a lot of youth. a lot of potential mistakes, but playing in front of Halak/Johnson and with our depth at forward we should still see improvement.

Ideally, still would like to see another top 4 added, but the summer isn't over.