No one ever said Nonis was smart either. But he now has competition for the Potato of the Year award!
- jerseyleaf

Long term perspectives are bleak regarding PK, that is true...

I'm on the owners side... lock those greedy mofos out

#ownersalwayswin
- conor_smythe

I don't disagree with your sentiment, but that ship has already sailed. Can't put the poop back in the horse.

this......


and then they low balled him
- homiedclown

Idiots. Can you imagine how those fans will feel if the lose him now? Right after being in the ECF and losing their captain too? Wait a minute??

I think he'll get 7.5-8 mil per. Habs have to pay him, now that he's won a Norris and carried the team on his back through most of the playoffs. Impact defensemen are rare and come at a premium. He'll sign.

Idiots. Can you imagine how those fans will feel if the lose him now? Right after being in the ECF and losing their captain too? Wait a minute??
- Buffalo-Sabres

Ethan Moreau? lol

simple answer: yes

Two things worth pointing out.

1.) He certainly didn't look like an $8 million dollar defenseman in the middle of the conference finals. He was completely worn out. Did not do very much defensively, also had a reckless couple of hacks late in one of the games that should've given the Rangers a PP and a chance to tie. Don't remember which game, but terribly undisciplined.

2.) I think that undisciplined/high risk nature is a big reason why he watched most of the Olympics in favor of Dan Hamhuis. High risk looks great when he's skating circles around the Tampa Bay Lighting and making them spin themselves into the boards (literally), but there's two sides to it.

He's not an 8 million dollar defenseman. Not a big critique. Probably less than 5 people are.

That being said, he's worth much more than the 5.25 or whatever it is that they offered.

Habs are playing with fire. People on tsn forum compare pks demands to current contracts which makes no sense because every year contracts get higher and higher.

I feel like 8 x 8 with a limited no trade clause of some type should be a simple compromise. PK leaves money on the table and Habs get a small bargain.

Another thought is Habs want these back to back one year deals so they can get 10years instead of 8.

That's a gamble because mid 30s Canberra tough on a player.
- Allan Bester

When you look at all the arbitration longer term contracts they always finished a bit higher then what the player demanded on a 1 year deal. When you look at the deal Lars Eller got you have to imagine that on a long term contract PK is asking well above 8 million probably near 9 million which in my opinion is ludicrous. If that is the case I totally understand why Bergevin and Subban's clan isn't close on a long term deal. In my opinion anything above 8.5 on average is not proper cap management.

I posted this in another thread but it applies here:

One issue that is often overlooked is the extra cost of living in Montreal because of taxes. The Habs often "overpay" lesser-tier players in order to offset the 50% tax rate (really about 57% if you include various non-income tax and fees) as opposed to playing in Florida (with no state income tax, IIRC). This leads to people irritated at Moen at 1.85/yr (I didn't have a problem with the money, but I hated the term on that contract--a separate matter), but Moen at 1.85 in Montreal is Moen at 1.1-1.3 in many other places in the league (and that's a fair price, IMO, at the moment he signed--again, leaving out the term).

When it comes to top-dollar players, balancing the salary cap against player pay expectations becomes complicated in a way that it doesn't in most of the league (other Canadian teams also face this problem, but none have to cope with the tax situation to the same degree as Montreal). The league doesn't have a "before tax" cap that would give wiggle room to teams in higher tax areas (maybe that should be part of the next CBA). So an 8x8 contract for Subban in Montreal leaves him considerably shy of what that same contract would give him elsewhere (thus providing a possible motivation for wanting more) while any attempt to compensate for the extra tax burden by the Habs takes a significant bite out of their cap space when we're into the 8+ million/yr range.

I think the Habs dropped the ball by not signing Subban long-term the last time but that ship has sailed. I'm also quite surprised they didn't strike a deal before the arbitration. But I think it's a little more complicated than just "Subban is greedy/deserves every penny" vs. "Bergevin screwed up/is a genius" that is getting thrown around in various fora and call-in shows. There are many more details than we outsiders (and that includes everyone not actually taking part in the negotiations) will ever know. Probably best to see how it all unfolds (a lot like waiting to actually see movie, or a playoff series, before deciding if it's good or bad).

give him 50 mil for 7 years and the story goes away

I posted this in another thread but it applies here:

One issue that is often overlooked is the extra cost of living in Montreal because of taxes. The Habs often "overpay" lesser-tier players in order to offset the 50% tax rate (really about 57% if you include various non-income tax and fees) as opposed to playing in Florida (with no state income tax, IIRC). This leads to people irritated at Moen at 1.85/yr (I didn't have a problem with the money, but I hated the term on that contract--a separate matter), but Moen at 1.85 in Montreal is Moen at 1.1-1.3 in many other places in the league (and that's a fair price, IMO, at the moment he signed--again, leaving out the term).

When it comes to top-dollar players, balancing the salary cap against player pay expectations becomes complicated in a way that it doesn't in most of the league (other Canadian teams also face this problem, but none have to cope with the tax situation to the same degree as Montreal). The league doesn't have a "before tax" cap that would give wiggle room to teams in higher tax areas (maybe that should be part of the next CBA). So an 8x8 contract for Subban in Montreal leaves him considerably shy of what that same contract would give him elsewhere (thus providing a possible motivation for wanting more) while any attempt to compensate for the extra tax burden by the Habs takes a significant bite out of their cap space when we're into the 8+ million/yr range.

I think the Habs dropped the ball by not signing Subban long-term the last time but that ship has sailed. I'm also quite surprised they didn't strike a deal before the arbitration. But I think it's a little more complicated than just "Subban is greedy/deserves every penny" vs. "Bergevin screwed up/is a genius" that is getting thrown around in various fora and call-in shows. There are many more details than we outsiders (and that includes everyone not actually taking part in the negotiations) will ever know. Probably best to see how it all unfolds (a lot like waiting to actually see movie, or a playoff series, before deciding if it's good or bad).
- Ovation

You make a good point about the tax issues. The salary cap definitely needs some tweaking in this regard.

No one ever said Nonis was smart either. But he now has competition for the Potato of the Year award!
- jerseyleaf

Potatoes are yummy!

XxNYIxX

I posted this in another thread but it applies here:

One issue that is often overlooked is the extra cost of living in Montreal because of taxes. The Habs often "overpay" lesser-tier players in order to offset the 50% tax rate (really about 57% if you include various non-income tax and fees) as opposed to playing in Florida (with no state income tax, IIRC). This leads to people irritated at Moen at 1.85/yr (I didn't have a problem with the money, but I hated the term on that contract--a separate matter), but Moen at 1.85 in Montreal is Moen at 1.1-1.3 in many other places in the league (and that's a fair price, IMO, at the moment he signed--again, leaving out the term).

When it comes to top-dollar players, balancing the salary cap against player pay expectations becomes complicated in a way that it doesn't in most of the league (other Canadian teams also face this problem, but none have to cope with the tax situation to the same degree as Montreal). The league doesn't have a "before tax" cap that would give wiggle room to teams in higher tax areas (maybe that should be part of the next CBA). So an 8x8 contract for Subban in Montreal leaves him considerably shy of what that same contract would give him elsewhere (thus providing a possible motivation for wanting more) while any attempt to compensate for the extra tax burden by the Habs takes a significant bite out of their cap space when we're into the 8+ million/yr range.

I think the Habs dropped the ball by not signing Subban long-term the last time but that ship has sailed. I'm also quite surprised they didn't strike a deal before the arbitration. But I think it's a little more complicated than just "Subban is greedy/deserves every penny" vs. "Bergevin screwed up/is a genius" that is getting thrown around in various fora and call-in shows. There are many more details than we outsiders (and that includes everyone not actually taking part in the negotiations) will ever know. Probably best to see how it all unfolds (a lot like waiting to actually see movie, or a playoff series, before deciding if it's good or bad).
- Ovation

I am sorry but your story about income taxes is grossly inflated. Hockey players are taxed up around 50% without any deductions. they do not pay Unemployement nor pension plans in Canada. They are entitled to deductions like every other citizen of the country and are tax exempted in Canada (for US citizens) on all games played outside Canada. The actual % paid by players varies greatly depending on their citenzenship and fiscal residence. In addition, when compared to the other canadian provinces, there is a diffrence of 11% between the highest income tax province (50% Quebec, 49.6% Ontario) and Alberta at 39%. The base Federal income tax in the states is 35% all in all a MAXIMUM of 15% would be the surtax pay. But yet again when you play in Mtl you have access to alot more marketing $$$$ then you do in Florida. so that also compensates for the difference.

I am not saying you are worng in the overpayment due to taxes, but it's not as bad as you make it out to be

give him 50 mil for 7 years and the story goes away
- homiedclown

He is asking, way, way more than that. That's the problem....

I posted this in another thread but it applies here:

One issue that is often overlooked is the extra cost of living in Montreal because of taxes. The Habs often "overpay" lesser-tier players in order to offset the 50% tax rate (really about 57% if you include various non-income tax and fees) as opposed to playing in Florida (with no state income tax, IIRC). This leads to people irritated at Moen at 1.85/yr (I didn't have a problem with the money, but I hated the term on that contract--a separate matter), but Moen at 1.85 in Montreal is Moen at 1.1-1.3 in many other places in the league (and that's a fair price, IMO, at the moment he signed--again, leaving out the term).

When it comes to top-dollar players, balancing the salary cap against player pay expectations becomes complicated in a way that it doesn't in most of the league (other Canadian teams also face this problem, but none have to cope with the tax situation to the same degree as Montreal). The league doesn't have a "before tax" cap that would give wiggle room to teams in higher tax areas (maybe that should be part of the next CBA). So an 8x8 contract for Subban in Montreal leaves him considerably shy of what that same contract would give him elsewhere (thus providing a possible motivation for wanting more) while any attempt to compensate for the extra tax burden by the Habs takes a significant bite out of their cap space when we're into the 8+ million/yr range.

I think the Habs dropped the ball by not signing Subban long-term the last time but that ship has sailed. I'm also quite surprised they didn't strike a deal before the arbitration. But I think it's a little more complicated than just "Subban is greedy/deserves every penny" vs. "Bergevin screwed up/is a genius" that is getting thrown around in various fora and call-in shows. There are many more details than we outsiders (and that includes everyone not actually taking part in the negotiations) will ever know. Probably best to see how it all unfolds (a lot like waiting to actually see movie, or a playoff series, before deciding if it's good or bad).
- Ovation

You know, that's all fine and dandy and obviously not an obligation by the Habs organization to throw a couple extra hundred thousand at some of their lesser payed players as incentive or whatever to help with the higher tax rate... but I'm not really sure it applies to the $5 million per year and up players. Certainly not an $8 million dollar a year player. Besides, who is to say any of their players end up playing out their contracts 100% in Montreal?

I get your point, but I don't think it applies in this case.

You are very stupi.... finish the word if you can ....

5,25 mil was for a contract for ONE YEAR .... Look at Eller's contract ... he got more for more years .... Subban was supposed to be asking above 10 millions a season for a contract of 8 years ...

Nothing is was done to Subban except making him understand that he is part of a team .... many of his mistakes were saved by his good buddy Carey this season.

I'm sorry but Subban is not a Weber or a Doughty .... 50+ pts and still finish in the - this year ... Lots of work to do for him next season.

Furthermore, Subban does not deserve a contract like Toews or Kane or Crosby or Malkin ... because all of them actually helped there team win a Stanley cup.

Congrats he was a Norris trophy winner ... I want to see more of him before letting him make 9 millions a season ... and why not use what the league gives to teams and allow him to play one last season in MTL before opening the bank.

If I do understand the contract he will have is that he is still a RFA next year and so is still a habs for at least another season or two after this one.

If he still wants too much and is acting like a little spoiled brat (by asking way to much again) ... then i'm sure a team will like to give the world for him ... and even more.

So as a hockey fan ... I want to tell the vultures of other team that are fast criticizing other team to look at your own before maing any comments.
- Hemeros

Exactly!
I said this last night.
Subban IS NOT WORTH the money he is asking for. Period.

It's a business on both sides. Why do we need a cheering interest other than the desire to see the Habs (frank) themselves over. And on that front, they are doing a hell of a job. If you want to keep this guy, stay away from arbitration. Don't make it worse by going in with a low number that requires your lawyer to excessively slag the player to justify.

Just remember guys that

5.25Mil and 8.5Mil are only the starting salary offers for negociating from both sides. I'm pretty sure Bergevin wanted the deal around 6.25-6.5Mil

At the end tho, pretty awful from both sides. Love PK, but he shouldn't be paid highest Dman in the league and MB shouldn't try at 5.25. It's almost insulting

Seriously I watched each and every game PK played with the Canadiens and I think that Bergevin saw everything that I saw.. His defensive play is terrible and he do not seem to care about it. It's a thing to take the puck behind your own net and trying to deke everyone on the ice in a spectacular fashion and it's another to be really effective at both ends of the ice. His Norris was won on 48 games... Sign him short term and trade him in the next months...

"A settlement between PK Subban and MTL is imminent. New deal coming."

Per Bobby McK

Oh look, McKenzie just tweeted that a new deal is coming. Oh boy!

A settlement between PK Subban and MTL is imminent. New deal coming.

Per Bobby McK
- ehabs9

I'm on PK's side. I just want what's best for him and that is getting as short of term as possible so he can go to free agency asap.

This could turn out brilliant for pk, he's gonna get aroud 8m on arbitration and he is 1y away from ufa, next season he could because of that cash in 8.5-9 because it would put habs in tough spot of losing him if they dont give him what he wants. Or he could sign another 7.5 1y deal andtest fa next season and 29 teams would give moon, sky and all the stars for him, he might attract even 10m per on 7y (in city with lower taxes). And both solutions for pk are better then 8m 8y that habs offered this season.

Eklund: A Simple Question: Whose Side Are You On?
- Eklund

The Habs are really looking bad right now. They are low-balling Subban big time. If he signs another short term contract, enjoy him while it lasts cause he'll be sick of being mistreated by the Habs.

They told him to sign a bridge contract last time and prove that he's worth a big contract.

He did.

Then Bergevin low balls him. Real classy.