Montreal just told Subban that he was only worth 5.25 million. Sure, they might not be handling arbitration in good faith, lying and only giving that number in an effort to offset what he asked for. But they still had to sit in arbitration and tell him to his face he was only worth 5.25 million and list all of his flaws.

Montreal is handling this correctly if their sole goal is to retain his services for the next 2 years at the lowest cap number possible. However, if their goal is to keep him happy enough with the organization to play for them beyond the next 2 years, this is probably one of the worst ways they could have handled it.
- Antilles

Agree with you 100%

Montreal just told Subban that he was only worth 5.25 million. Sure, they might not be handling arbitration in good faith, lying and only giving that number in an effort to offset what he asked for. But they still had to sit in arbitration and tell him to his face he was only worth 5.25 million and list all of his flaws.

Montreal is handling this correctly if their sole goal is to retain his services for the next 2 years at the lowest cap number possible. However, if their goal is to keep him happy enough with the organization to play for them beyond the next 2 years, this is probably one of the worst ways they could have handled it.
- Antilles

Well said

Montreal just told Subban that he was only worth 5.25 million. Sure, they might not be handling arbitration in good faith, lying and only giving that number in an effort to offset what he asked for. But they still had to sit in arbitration and tell him to his face he was only worth 5.25 million and list all of his flaws.

Montreal is handling this correctly if their sole goal is to retain his services for the next 2 years at the lowest cap number possible. However, if their goal is to keep him happy enough with the organization to play for them beyond the next 2 years, this is probably one of the worst ways they could have handled it.
- Antilles

What are you talking about? That is how arbitration works. Player asks for as much as he thinks he can get, team replies with a low number so the arbitrator has a base to start from. We're at arbitration because the original offers were rejected. It could be Montreal or it could be Meehan.

For one second, did you really think this over? If so, why don't you (frank)ing tell us what the original offers on the table were?

What are you talking about? That is how arbitration works. Player asks for as much as he thinks he can get, team replies with a low number so the arbitrator has a base to start from. We're at arbitration because the original offers were rejected. It could be Montreal or it could be Meehan.

For one second, did you really think this over? If so, why don't you (frank)ing tell us what the original offers on the table were?
- elcabong

Don't get your knickers in a knot. It's simple - if you wanted to keep PK long term, this was not the way to go.

Don't get your knickers in a knot. It's simple - if you want to keep PK long term, this was not the way to go.
- fifty__missions

I'll ask you too? Give me the contract numbers on offer...from both sides. Then and only then will we know what went wrong. The rest is pointless.

I'll ask you too? Give me the contract numbers on offer...from both sides. Then and only then will we know what went wrong. The rest is pointless.
- elcabong

What went wrong is that they didn't get a deal done. Period.

What went wrong is that they didn't get a deal done. Period.
- fifty__missions

I was hoping for a little more elaboration on your part. So, I take it you haven't got a clue?

What went wrong is that they didn't get a deal done. Period.
- fifty__missions

While im fully on the side that thinks pk took his bridge, killed it, and bergevin should pay him. im not sure its quite as definitive as u say.

Certainly a gamble, but subban might not be ruffled at all and just sees it as part of the process.
Mtl might just get him at 6 for 2 years and then 8x8. That said; they'dve saved 4 mil over the next 2 years and still get him around what hes asking now

risky though

I was hoping for a little more elaboration on your part. So, I take it you have no clue?
- elcabong

Meh. Just read PK's very own words about playing in his hometown. He'll look good in blue and white in a few years.

This is a tough question to answer...

Chris Kunitz had 35G with Pit (crosby) last season... how many does he score on another team (average team with average #1 center)

This is a tough question to answer...

Chris Kunitz had 35G with Pit (crosby) last season... how many does he score on another team (average team with average #1 center)
- AlfieisKing

The guy is a good player regardless. And a great compliment for crosby.

But I dont think theres any doubt he doesnt put up the same numbers with a lesser center.

25g and 60 points maybe.

Did not belong on Canada over some of the players left out. But they won; so cant complain much

The guy is a good player regardless. And a great compliment for crosby.

But I dont think theres any doubt he doesnt put up the same numbers with a lesser center.

25g and 60 points maybe.

Did not belong on Canada over some of the players left out. But they won; so cant complain much
- hugefemale dog77

Well said

Imo, bergevin is overplaying his rfa control.
Pk is not the type of player or in a position within the franchises hierarchy, that u wanna do this with

Imo, bergevin is overplaying his rfa control.
Pk is not the type of player or in a position within the franchises hierarchy, that u wanna do this with
- hugefemale dog77

I would be shocked if PK is a Hab after this contract.

What are you talking about? That is how arbitration works. Player asks for as much as he thinks he can get, team replies with a low number so the arbitrator has a base to start from. We're at arbitration because the original offers were rejected. It could be Montreal or it could be Meehan.

For one second, did you really think this over? If so, why don't you (frank)ing tell us what the original offers on the table were?
- elcabong

That's not how arbitration works, according to the CBA. The team doesn't give a low number the arbitrator works from as a starting point. They give they number they think the player actually deserves. Anything is else is against the CBA, and not negotiating in good faith. While we, using some common sense, can know that Montreal just submitted that number in order to get him for cheaper, doing so is actually against the CBA and would likely result in penalties if it could be proven.

It doesn't matter what the original offers on the table were. If Subban wanted completely ridiculous numbers, fine, take him to arbitration. But completely lowballing him in arbitration, not negotiating in good faith by not offering him in arbitration anywhere close to what he is worth, is simply the wrong way to go about it if you are trying to maintain a positive relationship with a player.

Montreal is handling this correctly if they want him for the next couple years as cheap as possible. They are handling this horribly if they are concerned with the effect it has on his decision to play in Montreal after that.

I would be shocked if PK is a Hab after this contract.
- fifty__missions

It depends what you mean. Like as in Montreal trades him?

That's not how arbitration works, according to the CBA. The team doesn't give a low number the arbitrator works from as a starting point. They give they number they think the player actually deserves. Anything is else is against the CBA, and not negotiating in good faith. While we, using some common sense, can know that Montreal just submitted that number in order to get him for cheaper, doing so is actually against the CBA and would likely result in penalties if it could be proven.

It doesn't matter what the original offers on the table were. If Subban wanted completely ridiculous numbers, fine, take him to arbitration. But completely lowballing him in arbitration, not negotiating in good faith by not offering him in arbitration anywhere close to what he is worth, is simply the wrong way to go about it if you are trying to maintain a positive relationship with a player.

Montreal is handling this correctly if they want him for the next couple years as cheap as possible. They are handling this horribly if they are concerned with the effect it has on his decision to play in Montreal after that.
- Antilles

It depends what you mean. Like as in Montreal trades him?
- elcabong

Sure, whatever. But he won't be back.

That's not how arbitration works, according to the CBA. The team doesn't give a low number the arbitrator works from as a starting point. They give they number they think the player actually deserves. Anything is else is against the CBA, and not negotiating in good faith. While we, using some common sense, can know that Montreal just submitted that number in order to get him for cheaper, doing so is actually against the CBA and would likely result in penalties if it could be proven.

It doesn't matter what the original offers on the table were. If Subban wanted completely ridiculous numbers, fine, take him to arbitration. But completely lowballing him in arbitration, not negotiating in good faith by not offering him in arbitration anywhere close to what he is worth, is simply the wrong way to go about it if you are trying to maintain a positive relationship with a player.

Montreal is handling this correctly if they want him for the next couple years as cheap as possible. They are handling this horribly if they are concerned with the effect it has on his decision to play in Montreal after that.
- Antilles

Of course, the team and their lawyers will have to justify within their allotted 90 minute period, why they believe he is worth 5.25M. Meehan will in turn get 90 minutes to reply, why they believe Subban is worth 8.5M. Arbitrator then has 48 hours to release her decision based on the hearing and comparables.

What we need to know before placing a blame on someone, is what was on the table before getting to this point. Only then will we know who to blame for the breakdown of negotiations.

Granted, this could turn ugly. If word gets out Bergevin is at fault, he risks losing his job on this one. Fans and media will run him out of town.

Of course, the team and their lawyers will have to justify within their allotted 90 minute period, why they believe he is worth 5.25M. Meehan will in turn get 90 minutes to reply, why they believe Subban is worth 8.5M. Arbitrator then has 48 hours to release her decision based on the hearing and comparables.

What we need to know before placing a blame on someone, is what was on the table before getting to this point. Only then will we know who to blame for the breakdown of negotiations.

Granted, this could turn ugly. If word gets out Bergevin is at fault, he risks losing his job on this one. Fans and media will run him out of town.
- elcabong

What was on the table before doesn't justify lowballing Subban so severely in arbitration. What was on the table could potentially justify going to arbitration. But the way arbitration is being handled is separate from where their negotiations were before. Bergevin may have felt forced to go to arbitration by Subban having ridiculous demands, we don't know. But he wasn't forced to tell Subban he is only worth 5.25m.

I'm wondering what the Habs brass is seeing in Subban that won't let them commit long term.

Of course, the team and their lawyers will have to justify within their allotted 90 minute period, why they believe he is worth 5.25M. Meehan will in turn get 90 minutes to reply, why they believe Subban is worth 8.5M. Arbitrator then has 48 hours to release her decision based on the hearing and comparables.

What we need to know before placing a blame on someone, is what was on the table before getting to this point. Only then will we know who to blame for the breakdown of negotiations.

Granted, this could turn ugly. If word gets out Bergevin is at fault, he risks losing his job on this one. Fans and media will run him out of town.
- elcabong

I think it already has turned ugly. Pretty reasonable to suggest that neither side is happy here.

Who cares

I'm wondering what the Habs brass is seeing in Subban that won't let them commit long term.
- J-P

How do you know they didn't offer him a long term contract? Maybe it's PK who isn't ready to commit long term...

Who cares
- holeinone