Immediate near-term, I don't think the trade will look great for us, even though Umby will probably be a bit better than advertised.

By year 3, when Hartsy's gone the way of Brendan Morrow, and the Flyers are awash in new found cap space, I think the optics will definitely be different then.


- Tomahawk

Columbus is overrating Hartnell, and we're undervaluing Umberger.

Okay, so Hartnell had better poesssion numbers. Does that mean individually, or line-wise? If it means the latter, then of course he would have better numbers because of who he played with the last two seasons.

Umberger was hurt last year and fell out of favor with management/coaches. Whatever. He's not the defensive liability that Hartnell is.

It's a dangerous game they are playing.
I guess they can control him as an RFA for even two more years, but do they want to let him walk as an UFA?

PK can say he wants to be a Hab for life but these arbitrations get nasty.
- Marc D

Plus the salaries are only going to get bigger. They should have signed him to an 8 year deal last offseason or the season before. The cap will go up another $5m or so next season and he'll be worth $10m. They could have locked him up for 7 or 8m if they weren't being so frugal and playing hardball.

It's at the point where Subban might as well just play things out and hit ufa unless the habs offer a ridiculous proposal

Okay, so Hartnell had better poesssion numbers. Does that mean individually, or line-wise? If it means the latter, then of course he would have better numbers because of who he played with the last two seasons.

Umberger was hurt last year and fell out of favor with management/coaches. Whatever. He's not the defensive liability that Hartnell is.
- KGBflyers10

It's mostly line-wise, but Hartsy did spend over 40% of his time @ES w/ other lines and was still good. I think they'll be happy w/ him for awhile... but he's virtually guaranteed to slow down soon.

Columbus is overrating Hartnell, and we're undervaluing Umberger.

Okay, so Hartnell had better poesssion numbers. Does that mean individually, or line-wise? If it means the latter, then of course he would have better numbers because of who he played with the last two seasons.

Umberger was hurt last year and fell out of favor with management/coaches. Whatever. He's not the defensive liability that Hartnell is.
- KGBflyers10

He had strong possession numbers with everyone on the team. Umberger was the opposite with the jackets

- Tomahawk

Class is in session. You've been schooled.

He would look way better in orange.
- JonnyHammerstix

I personally hope that orange has blue mixed in with it... as in, a team in NY.

Most overrated player I've seen in years. I still don't get why so many people are high on this kid? He's got speed, and he's got skill. But people are throwing out ridiculous numbers for an unproven, and quite frankly defensive liability. He's constantly hanging his teammates out to dry by going deep into the offensive zone, he's a puck hog.. I mean, if he want's to be a forward, why doesn't he switch positions? If it wasn't for Price in net, and his teammates covering position for him, he wouldn't look near what he does. "Oh, but he won the Norris"... yeah, since the Norris has become the most offensive defenseman. To me, and I know most people will argue with me, he's a $5mil/year player at most right now.

I mean, people are talking crazy numbers... give the kid anything he wants. Really? Because there is no way no how in my book he deserves anything close to what guys like Weber get, or Lidstrom got(comparable) when he was playing, let alone more than them.

I just don't get it. Montreal fans like to say "Have you even watched any actual games?!".. Umm, yeah.. I have... a lot, actually. And I just don't see a $10mil/year player. I see a cocky kid who thinks he deserves the world, but has only earned a country.

Hey.. jmo. People can shake their heads at me all they want, and call my opinion "wrong"... It's just my opinion.. and my opinion is that I never want to see him on the Flyers, especially at $10+mil/season, unless he turns into Lidstrom+Potvin+Coffey+Orr reincarnated. Not to mention his self-centered cocky attitude that just seems to earn the respect of everyone around the league, including his teammates.

Again.. just my opinion... hate on it all you want...

Class is in session. You've been schooled.
- PLindbergh31

I've really never seen anybody devote so much energy toward denying other people their opinions.

I personally hope that orange has blue mixed in with it... as in, a team in NY.

Most overrated player I've seen in years. I still don't get why so many people are high on this kid? He's got speed, and he's got skill. But people are throwing out ridiculous numbers for an unproven, and quite frankly defensive liability. He's constantly hanging his teammates out to dry by going deep into the offensive zone, he's a puck hog.. I mean, if he want's to be a forward, why doesn't he switch positions? If it wasn't for Price in net, and his teammates covering position for him, he wouldn't look near what he does. "Oh, but he won the Norris"... yeah, since the Norris has become the most offensive defenseman. To me, and I know most people will argue with me, he's a $5mil/year player at most right now.

I mean, people are talking crazy numbers... give the kid anything he wants. Really? Because there is no way no how in my book he deserves anything close to what guys like Weber get, or Lidstrom got(comparable) when he was playing, let alone more than them.

I just don't get it. Montreal fans like to say "Have you even watched any actual games?!".. Umm, yeah.. I have... a lot, actually. And I just don't see a $10mil/year player. I see a cocky kid who thinks he deserves the world, but has only earned a country.

Hey.. jmo. People can shake their heads at me all they want, and call my opinion "wrong"... It's just my opinion.. and my opinion is that I never want to see him on the Flyers, especially at $10+mil/season, unless he turns into Lidstrom+Potvin+Coffey+Orr reincarnated. Not to mention his self-centered cocky attitude that just seems to earn the respect of everyone around the league, including his teammates.

Again.. just my opinion... hate on it all you want...
- WarriorHockey21

I couldnt agree more.

I personally hope that orange has blue mixed in with it... as in, a team in NY.

Most overrated player I've seen in years. I still don't get why so many people are high on this kid? He's got speed, and he's got skill. But people are throwing out ridiculous numbers for an unproven, and quite frankly defensive liability. He's constantly hanging his teammates out to dry by going deep into the offensive zone, he's a puck hog.. I mean, if he want's to be a forward, why doesn't he switch positions? If it wasn't for Price in net, and his teammates covering position for him, he wouldn't look near what he does. "Oh, but he won the Norris"... yeah, since the Norris has become the most offensive defenseman. To me, and I know most people will argue with me, he's a $5mil/year player at most right now.

I mean, people are talking crazy numbers... give the kid anything he wants. Really? Because there is no way no how in my book he deserves anything close to what guys like Weber get, or Lidstrom got(comparable) when he was playing, let alone more than them.

I just don't get it. Montreal fans like to say "Have you even watched any actual games?!".. Umm, yeah.. I have... a lot, actually. And I just don't see a $10mil/year player. I see a cocky kid who thinks he deserves the world, but has only earned a country.

Hey.. jmo. People can shake their heads at me all they want, and call my opinion "wrong"... It's just my opinion.. and my opinion is that I never want to see him on the Flyers, especially at $10+mil/season, unless he turns into Lidstrom+Potvin+Coffey+Orr reincarnated. Not to mention his self-centered cocky attitude that just seems to earn the respect of everyone around the league, including his teammates.

Again.. just my opinion... hate on it all you want...
- WarriorHockey21

Yes, you're entitled to your opinion. But Subban is not a defensive liability. Not at all. He's solid defensively, he's physical, and he's dynamic with the puck. He has a sound all around game. I wouldn't put him as good as players like Weber or Lidstrom either. But he's one of the top young defenseman in the League. And he's worth a lot more then 5M a year.

It's mostly line-wise, but Hartsy did spend over 40% of his time @ES w/ other lines and was still good. I think they'll be happy w/ him for awhile... but he's virtually guaranteed to slow down soon.
- Tomahawk

He has already slowed down. He will be a decent player, he brings an element that they need but he may only have a year or two left of somewhat comparable production.

Yes, you're entitled to your opinion. But Subban is not a defensive liability. Not at all. He's solid defensively, he's physical, and he's dynamic with the puck. He has a sound all around game. I wouldn't put him as good as players like Weber or Lidstrom either. But he's one of the top young defenseman in the League. And he's worth a lot more then 5M a year.
- MJL

If MacDonald makes 5 mill in this market I would give Subban no more than 7 mill. He would then be making close to as much as Doughty and lets face it. Doughty is a big step ahead of him.

I've really never seen anybody devote so much energy toward denying other people their opinions.
- Tomahawk

You aren't allowed your own opinion!

If MacDonald makes 5 mill in this market I would give Subban no more than 7 mill. He would then be making close to as much as Doughty and lets face it. Doughty is a big step ahead of him.
- GOA88

If Doughty was in Subban's position right now, what would he get? Doughty signed his deal a number of years ago.

Pronger was amazing.
One of the things he did that impressed me was sometimes he had the puck in the D zone with no option to pass or skate it out. He'd just take a slapper and it would end up on goal, no matter if he was 40 or 80 feet away from the other goal.
- Marc D

loved that

loved that
- Crimsoninja

+1

You aren't allowed your own opinion!
- PLindbergh31

Man... been seeing so many kids w/ high top fades lately... granted, not a lot of Koreans, but still...

Pronger was amazing.
One of the things he did that impressed me was sometimes he had the puck in the D zone with no option to pass or skate it out. He'd just take a slapper and it would end up on goal, no matter if he was 40 or 80 feet away from the other goal.
- Marc D

Pronger played the game in slow motion. It was a treat to watch.

What a (frank)in shame.

Pronger was amazing.
One of the things he did that impressed me was sometimes he had the puck in the D zone with no option to pass or skate it out. He'd just take a slapper and it would end up on goal, no matter if he was 40 or 80 feet away from the other goal.
- Marc D

Man... been seeing so many kids w/ high top fades lately... granted, not a lot of Koreans, but still...
- Tomahawk

When you are 5'1" man, every inch helps.

If Doughty was in Subban's position right now, what would he get? Doughty signed his deal a number of years ago.
- MJL

He would probably make Weber money..

If Doughty was in Subban's position right now, what would he get? Doughty signed his deal a number of years ago.
- MJL

I said the other day that I thought Doughty would command Toews/Kane money.

And he'd likely get it.

I said the other day that I thought Doughty would command Toews/Kane money.

And he'd likely get it.
- johndewar

Toews and Kane are grossly overpaid. Unbelievable. What happens when its Keiths turn??

I said the other day that I thought Doughty would command Toews/Kane money.

And he'd likely get it.
- johndewar

I think so too! Doughty just completely controls the game out there. In the same way that Pronger did in his short time in Philly.

Toews and Kane are grossly overpaid. Unbelievable. What happens when its Keiths turn??
- GOA88

I disagree that they are grossly overpaid. Keith will be 40 when his deal expires. So will he even have another turn?

I disagree that they are grossly overpaid. Keith will be 40 when his deal expires. So will he even have another turn?
- MJL

Oh, I wasnt aware of that. What a bargain!! And by your assessment the Flyers have a hell of a bargain with Giroux.