I agree, but you asked for a possible argument and I gave you one. Datsyuk > Bergie IMO too though.
- rangerdanger94

Gotcha...see to me, a "slowed-down" older Datsyuk merely falls back to Bergeron's level, but certainly not below it. At least, not yet.

OK, this is incorrect, bout continue . . .
- John Jaeckel

Please

You answered your own question... Babcock felt defense mattered more so Crosby wasn't sent out to score as much as he is with the Penguins.

Are there any non-Hawks fans arguing that Toews is better than Crosby? Can I slide that into the evidence department? Or are you all just better hockey fans than everybody else?
- SolidGoldBricks

Better than Leaf fans for sure.

Bobby Orr above Gretsky!? WTH is wrong with some people?
- SensFan93

Born before 1965?

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

The way you say that just undermines your own credibility. At the very least, there is a valid argument there. Maybe you never saw orr beyond some grainy highlight reels, dunno.

Please
- RobFlyers#1

Chicago puts Toews out there on the PK because he has offensive upside which has the potential to lead to shorthanded points to go along with his rock solid defensive play and strong endurance.

Bob McKenzie put it this way. Clone Gretzky 19 times, clone Orr 19 times, give both teams a comparable goalie and who wins a 7 game series? Team Orr wins 4 straight going away because Orr could stop Gretzky, Gretzky could not stop Orr.

I'd take Orr as well. A defenseman who won the scoring title and was named the best defensemen the same season will never be accomplished again.
- paulr

Thank you, best hockey player who ever lived

I like Bergie a lot, but I'd love to hear the argument for why he's better than Datsyuk.
- andru2797

Best player right now not best player over the last decade, Datsyuk seemed last year like he is finally on the decline probably due to age. Also Bergeron is a winner, does whatever it takes to win and leads by example similar to Toews. Only proof I need is he plays for Boston and I don't hate him

You answered your own question... Babcock felt defense mattered more so Crosby wasn't sent out to score as much as he is with the Penguins.

Are there any non-Hawks fans arguing that Toews is better than Crosby? Can I slide that into the evidence department? Or are you all just better hockey fans than everybody else?
- SolidGoldBricks

I don't even know why we're having this discussing. No one in their right mind will say Toews is a better player than Crosby.

It's like saying Bob Gainey was a better player than Gretzky because he could shut him down, but not the other way around....

I agree, but you asked for a possible argument and I gave you one. Datsyuk > Bergie IMO too though.
- rangerdanger94

They are my two favorite players to watch though.

Please
- RobFlyers#1

Toews, Sharp, Hossa, Kruger, Ben Smith, Saad can all effectively kill penalties. Toews is out there simply because he's too good at it NOT to be.

Better than Leaf fans for sure.
- paulr

Oh good one.

Kopitar didn't make your top 10 huh ????? Interesting

Bob McKenzie put it this way. Clone Gretzky 19 times, clone Orr 19 times, give both teams a comparable goalie and who wins a 7 game series? Team Orr wins 4 straight going away because Orr could stop Gretzky, Gretzky could not stop Orr.

I'd take Orr as well. A defenseman who won the scoring title and was named the best defensemen the same season will never be accomplished again.
- paulr

Hate on me for favortism, but if anyone will do it in today's NHL it's Karlsson. Last year was considered a bad year for him, and he finished 6th or 7th in Norris Trophy voting yet was 14th in the NHL in points. 30 points behind Crosby mind you but only 13 points behind Getzlaf for 2nd overall & points back of a Top 10. The year he won his Norris he finished 11th overal, 29 points behind Malkin, 3 points back of a Top 10.

All this while playing with an inferior team and before his 24th birthday. Now I'm not saying it's for sure going to happen but if someone would do what only Orr can do I think he would be a good bet, depending on how the Sens improve their roster and if Crosby gets injured that year lol

1) Crosby
2) Toews
3) Stamkos
4) Doughty
5) Malkin
6) Keith
7) Kopitar
8) P. Kane
9) Tavares
10) Bergeron
- KovyFan27

this is a creditable list.......

They are my two favorite players to watch though.
- SolidGoldBricks

If we're talking favorite to watch, I gotta put Kane in there as well.

Toews, Sharp, Hossa, Kruger, Ben Smith, Saad can all effectively kill penalties. Toews is out there simply because he's too good at it NOT to be.
- andru2797

Beat me to it, thank you

Bolded Especially

Kopitar didn't make your top 10 huh ????? Interesting
- PUCKBOY25

he's right there

Born before 1965?

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

The way you say that just undermines your own credibility. At the very least, there is a valid argument there. Maybe you never saw orr beyond some grainy highlight reels, dunno.
- John Jaeckel

Even those grainy highlight reels you see a guy who dominates like no one has before or since. The guy could do it all, score a ton of points, hold onto the puck forever, use his teammates as well as anyone but Gretzky, play solid defense, play physical and he could fight. As good gretzky was, he was average defensively, below average physically and couldn't fight to save his life.

I don't even know why we're having this discussing. No one in their right mind will say Toews is a better player than Crosby.

It's like saying Bob Gainey was a better player than Gretzky because he could shut him down, but not the other way around....
- l3ig_l2ecl

Towes is more Messier, shut down players but put up good numbers, while being one of the best leaders in the game.

I do think that Crosby has a slight edge over Towes due to the big gap in point totals, but if I can only choose 1 player to have on my team I would pick Towes everyday of the week.

Hate on me for favortism, but if anyone will do it in today's NHL it's Karlsson. Last year was considered a bad year for him, and he finished 6th or 7th in Norris Trophy voting yet was 14th in the NHL in points. 30 points behind Crosby mind you but only 13 points behind Getzlaf for 2nd overall & points back of a Top 10. The year he won his Norris he finished 11th overal, 29 points behind Malkin, 3 points back of a Top 10.

All this while playing with an inferior team and before his 24th birthday. Now I'm not saying it's for sure going to happen but if someone would do what only Orr can do I think he would be a good bet, depending on how the Sens improve their roster and if Crosby gets injured that year lol
- PaskySens

Watch out for Dan Boyle now that he's partnered with McDonagh.

The actual top 5 on the all time list should be:

1. Gretzky - Come on, the guy has more assists than any other player has total points.
2. Orr - Hell of a dman and could put up points.
3. Messier - 2nd most points overall, probably the best captain ever and was tough as nails. Played a complete game and put up more points than Howe in 9 less seasons.
4. Howe - Hell, he's Gordie Freakin Howe
5. Lemieux - An amazing player, could dominate the ice and if it wasn't for his injuries and health, he numbers would've been much higher.

If we're talking favorite to watch, I gotta put Kane in there as well.
- andru2797

I love to watch Kane. I probably put him right behind those other two. Also love to watch Karlsson and Doughty when it comes to defense.

Hate on me for favortism, but if anyone will do it in today's NHL it's Karlsson. Last year was considered a bad year for him, and he finished 6th or 7th in Norris Trophy voting yet was 14th in the NHL in points. 30 points behind Crosby mind you but only 13 points behind Getzlaf for 2nd overall & points back of a Top 10. The year he won his Norris he finished 11th overal, 29 points behind Malkin, 3 points back of a Top 10.

All this while playing with an inferior team and before his 24th birthday. Now I'm not saying it's for sure going to happen but if someone would do what only Orr can do I think he would be a good bet, depending on how the Sens improve their roster and if Crosby gets injured that year lol
- PaskySens

The problem here is according to those who saw him play, they say Orr could play defense and be physical. Karlsson, not so much.

Not bashing Karlsson, he's got great vision, and the best offensive Dman in the game.

However, to me, it's another way to say he's the best backward skating forward in the game.

Hate on me for favortism, but if anyone will do it in today's NHL it's Karlsson. Last year was considered a bad year for him, and he finished 6th or 7th in Norris Trophy voting yet was 14th in the NHL in points. 30 points behind Crosby mind you but only 13 points behind Getzlaf for 2nd overall & points back of a Top 10. The year he won his Norris he finished 11th overal, 29 points behind Malkin, 3 points back of a Top 10.

All this while playing with an inferior team and before his 24th birthday. Now I'm not saying it's for sure going to happen but if someone would do what only Orr can do I think he would be a good bet, depending on how the Sens improve their roster and if Crosby gets injured that year lol
- PaskySens

Not a chance!

Even those grainy highlight reels you see a guy who dominates like no one has before or since. The guy could do it all, score a ton of points, hold onto the puck forever, use his teammates as well as anyone but Gretzky, play solid defense, play physical and he could fight. As good gretzky was he was average defensively, below and average physically and couldn't fight to save his life.
- paulr

Orr would be the best player in the game today by a mile. You are right on all counts Paul.