Bobby Orr above Gretsky!? WTH is wrong with some people?
- SensFan93

Bob McKenzie put it this way. Clone Gretzky 19 times, clone Orr 19 times, give both teams a comparable goalie and who wins a 7 game series? Team Orr wins 4 straight going away because Orr could stop Gretzky, Gretzky could not stop Orr.

I'd take Orr as well. A defenseman who won the scoring title and was named the best defensemen the same season will never be accomplished again.

Datsyuk not being on the list is a joke.
- skindzier

i concur

I feel like we just keep coming back to Adam Oates.
- Yeah Boyes

He plays on a stacked offensive team. Im so sick of giroux getting hyped because of the good offense around him.
- rangerdanger94

Is that a joke? Because Giroux is the offence. The players on that team benefit from him not the other way around.

Not if your looking at overall play: an average of 65 non-PP goals per year given up while he's on the ice.
- StLBravesFan

uh. Okay. An argument can still, easily, be made that Ovechkin is better even if you factor in overall play.

edit; to clarify, Ovechkin would not make my top ten list. I would also pick Backstrom over him.

1) Crosby
2) Toews
3) Stamkos
4) Doughty
5) Malkin
6) Keith
7) Kopitar
8) P. Kane
9) Tavares
10) Bergeron

Agreed, but by your argument it's only points that matters.

I have no issue with you picking Crosby over Toews, I just take issue with an argument that a player's only worth is the points they score.
- DarthKane

At no point did I say only points matter. Simply that they matter MORE.

Agreed, but by your argument it's only points that matters.

I have no issue with you picking Crosby over Toews, I just take issue with an argument that a player's only worth is the points they score.
- DarthKane

He's never actually really made that argument. it's a lot easier to play good defense than score goals. Period. In any league.

Bobby Orr above Gretsky!? WTH is wrong with some people?
- SensFan93

Simple, they never saw Bobby Orr play.

Is that a joke? Because Giroux is the offence. The players on that team benefit from him not the other way around.
- RobFlyers#1

Giroux sucks dude. He's mcdonaghs female dog but so are every other forward on this top 10 list.

At no point did I say only points matter. Simply that they matter MORE.
- BINGO!

Babcock didn't seem to agree when he made Toews his go to guy. Oh and while we're on that subject where were Crosby's 'matter more points' during the Olympics? Seems Babcock felt defense mattered more than points .... strange that!

1) Crosby
2) Toews
3) Stamkos
4) Doughty
5) Malkin
6) Keith
7) Kopitar
8) P. Kane
9) Tavares
10) Bergeron
- KovyFan27

I like Bergie a lot, but I'd love to hear the argument for why he's better than Datsyuk.

Giroux sucks dude. He's mcdonaghs female dog but so are every other forward on this top 10 list.
- rangerdanger94

Oh I see ....your drunk.

I like Bergie a lot, but I'd love to hear the argument for why he's better than Datsyuk.
- andru2797

Bergie is 7 years younger

Bergie is 7 years younger
- rangerdanger94

That doesn't make him a better player, does it?
We're not talking about "Who would you start a franchise with"...we're talking about "Who are the best players in the game today."

Toews is my favorite of any active player, but I simply cannot consider him the best.

Crosby is in a class by himself when healthy. There have been times where Toews has struggled to produce offensively. Crosby did too this playoff, but we later found out it was likely because of a wrist injury.

My current top 10 :
1. Crosby - Simply no one in hockey today can take over a game like he can.
2. Toews - Best all-around player in the game, but sometimes struggles offensively
3. Malkin - Is the modern-day Mario Lemieux, injuries and all
4. Stamkos - The best pure goal scorer of this generation
5. Datsyuk - His age is the only thing that prevents him from still being on par wit h Toews. Excels in every aspect of the game that matters.
6. Ovechkin - When engaged, is nearly an unstoppable force. Best combination of skill/raw power in the NHL.
7. Duncan Keith - Only defenseman not named Lidstrom to win multiple Norris trophies since 1998.
8. Doughty - Right there with Keith as the top 2-way defensemen in the game.
9. Tavares - Still a lot of upside, one of the most dangerous players with the puck.
10. Perry - Goal scoring, intensity and grit, the best power-forward not named Ovechkin.

Hard to argue with your all-time list, but I would replace Messier with Lidstrom.
- andru2797

I actually like your list a lot, except I would replace Perry with Weber. I also think Datsyuk may be better than Stamkos still, but wouldn't put him ahead after the injury plagued season he just had.

Oh I see ....your drunk.
- RobFlyers#1

You mis-spelled Bozak.
- SolidGoldBricks

Babcock didn't seem to agree when he made Toews his go to guy. Oh and while we're on that subject where were Crosby's 'matter more points' during the Olympics? Seems Babcock felt defense mattered more than points .... strange that!
- paulr

You answered your own question... Babcock felt defense mattered more so Crosby wasn't sent out to score as much as he is with the Penguins.

Are there any non-Hawks fans arguing that Toews is better than Crosby? Can I slide that into the evidence department? Or are you all just better hockey fans than everybody else?

Babcock didn't seem to agree when he made Toews his go to guy. Oh and while we're on that subject where were Crosby's 'matter more points' during the Olympics? Seems Babcock felt defense mattered more than points .... strange that!
- paulr

Posession mattered more. Toews was better at getting/holding onto the puck than any other forward on the team. He was a posession driving beast on a team that was built with a mind towards defense and hanging onto the puck. Of course Crosby's value is going to be diminished somewhat in a situation like that.

There are going to be points in time where Toews is going to outplay Crosby. Of Course there will be. We saw this earlier in his career with Ovechkin. But time will show that, over the lengths of their respective careers, Crosby is better than Toews.

Which is where I put him.

Best overall player? Argument between Datsyuk, Crosby, and Toews. Kopitar a dark horse.

Offensive player? Crosby. No argument there.
- mochoson

I agree.

I love Datsyuk, again, left him off because of age and recent injury history. Kopitar is right there.

You answered your own question... Babcock felt defense mattered more so Crosby wasn't sent out to score as much as he is with the Penguins.

Are there any non-Hawks fans arguing that Toews is better than Crosby? Can I slide that into the evidence department? Or are you all just better hockey fans than everybody else?
- SolidGoldBricks

No I don't think any non Hawk fans are arguing that point

I agree.

I love Datsyuk, again, left him off because of age and recent injury history. Kopitar is right there.
- John Jaeckel

Definitely hard to rank Datsyuk there with the recent season. The problem is, there is that lingering question of is this the new trend for Datsyuk, or was it just a one-off season and he's still a top 10 player at his age. I don't think anybody will hold him out of their top 10 if he comes back this season and plays a more standard Datsyukian season.

That doesn't make him a better player, does it?
We're not talking about "Who would you start a franchise with"...we're talking about "Who are the best players in the game today."
- andru2797

I agree, but you asked for a possible argument and I gave you one. Datsyuk > Bergie IMO too though.

Your right it's an attribute.....it's not one that Crosby is incapable of doing. The fact Toews does more of it just means Chicago does not have other players to do it as effectively as Toews does....Pittsburgh do. Toews probably is better defensively than Crosby but the offensive side is so lop sided for Crosby it makes the argue meant for Toews or anyone else invalid
- RobFlyers#1

OK, this is incorrect, bout continue . . .