Now I will give you crap.
I guess you got the spliff smoke in your mouth...

Weber is the MOST over rated hype in the league.

Forget the size shot and stats.

It doesn't make up for what I consider being a real defenseman who is an impact defender, and he is not.
- wiz1901

Yeah, (frank) stats and all the ways one measures what makes a defenseman good. My completely subjective opinion is wht matters.

OK, but that's far from solely why I give him the edge. And I do agree, +/- is affected by so many other factors, it can't be a sole determining factor of really anything. But more of an indicator you can look at along with other things.

But . . .

The truth is, how do you accurately measure really what Keith does defending in space? How do you accurately measure what his mobility and passing do in terms of the Hawks' transition game (which some argue is what makes them one of the top 2-3 teams in the league)? You really can't.

I would argue, his +/- is one reflection of those things.

Conversely, Weber's +/- DID dramatically tumble after Suter left. It's not the be all, end all as far as a statement on Weber (or Suter) but it does indicate something as to how Weber may have benefited from playing with him.

Now, you can come back at me and say Keith benefits similarly from Seabrook. But I can say Seabrook is the one who benefits, because Keith has played pretty well no matter who he plays with: Hjalmarsson, even freaking Brookbank.

So that's my point—yours is well taken.
- John Jaeckel

Agree that Weber's has suffered since Suter leaving...but also the Preds have lost more talent in that time as a whole. I cannot imagine what Weber would look like on a talented roster at this point of his career. The guy absolutely carries this team on a nightly basis.

Being -2 in the last two season' is nothing short of a miracle with the team around him.

for some afternoon entertainment

Agree that Weber's has suffered since Suter leaving...but also the Preds have lost more talent in that time as a whole. I cannot imagine what Weber would look like on a talented roster at this point of his career. The guy absolutely carries this team on a nightly basis.

Being -2 in the last two season' is nothing short of a miracle with the team around him.
- nikoli1206

Yea, kind of like how St. Louis was a lock to win the cup when they got American hero and elite goalie Ryan Miller right?

the shoe doesnt always fit and not every player flourishes across every system. Its going to be interested to see how Weber plays under a coach not named Trotz for the first time in the NHL

Yea, kind of like how St. Louis was a lock to win the cup when they got American hero and elite goalie Ryan Miller right?

the shoe doesnt always fit and not every player flourishes across every system. Its going to be interested to see how Weber plays under a coach not named Trotz for the first time in the NHL
- FourFeathers773

Don't remind me.

Agree on Orr. Best ever. One of the biggest guys I ever saw on skates was Pat Quinn. Ask him if Bobby Orr could go.

Also agree on Hull. I think Savard worth a mention having made a slug like Secord a 50 goal scorer. Gretz never made Sementhead a scorer.
- 6628

I will agree with you about Savard. If the list was who would you pay money to watch play, Savard would be in MY top 3. He was one of the most exciting players to play the game.

I disagree about Secord being a slug. You don't score 50 multiple times being a slug. Secord could skate really well. And he knew where he needed to be to score those goals.

Its the Phil Esposito effect. Everyone always said all he did was score garbage goals. If it is so easy, how come no one else could do it at the level Espo did?

I will agree with you about Savard. If the list was who would you pay money to watch play, Savard would be in MY top 3. He was one of the most exciting players to play the game.

I disagree about Secord being a slug. You don't score 50 multiple times being a slug. Secord could skate really well. And he knew where he needed to be to score those goals.

Its the Phil Esposito effect. Everyone always said all he did was score garbage goals. If it is so easy, how come no one else could do it at the level Espo did?
- Elbows15

Those guys took true abuse in front of the cage to get those goals. I remember guys like Big Behn Wilson that put a hurting on guys in front. Not to mention Billy Smith and the likes, wonderfully brutal.

I will agree with you about Savard. If the list was who would you pay money to watch play, Savard would be in MY top 3. He was one of the most exciting players to play the game.

I disagree about Secord being a slug. You don't score 50 multiple times being a slug. Secord could skate really well. And he knew where he needed to be to score those goals.

Its the Phil Esposito effect. Everyone always said all he did was score garbage goals. If it is so easy, how come no one else could do it at the level Espo did?
- Elbows15

Yep. You don't score 50 goals and get 300 PIMs unless you know how to do both.
If Secord was supposed to be a 20 minute per night guy on Savard's line, he wound up being a 16 minute a night guy due to his time in the box, and he still potted 50. He could score fine.

[Kevin Hayes agent confirms he's not signing with the Hawks

[Kevin Hayes agent confirms he's not signing with the Hawks
- Maggie

BFD. He sucks anyway.

[Kevin Hayes agent confirms he's not signing with the Hawks
- Maggie

M'eh....

[Kevin Hayes agent confirms he's not signing with the Hawks
- Maggie

No surprise there...

No surprise there...
- EKolb13

No loss either....at least not a significant one.

No loss either....at least not a significant one.
- DarthKane

But - would have been better to sign him - first round pick, good sized wing, at least some talent and potential - let's see what happens with that 2nd round pick next June.

But - would have been better to sign him - first round pick, good sized wing, at least some talent and potential - let's see what happens with that 2nd round pick next June.
- StLBravesFan

I agree.

It would have been nice to have him in the system to see if he could eventually compete for a job with the big club. Hopefully that extra 2nd round pick produces something just as good, or better.

Couldn't stop myself.

Tweeted Hayes.

It bothered me that the expanantion was the Jimmy Hayes departure.

Sorry, but the Indianhead is too burned into my heart to not be hurt by ANY round guy "deciding" the hawks don't fit.

Frack him.

purposely "for the, for the" him...

Why take the free tickets you slime ball, if you know you are going elsewhere?

[Kevin Hayes agent confirms he's not signing with the Hawks
- Maggie

But he's the next [insert good player name here]! Whatever will the Hawks do without Captain Stairwell?!

Couldn't stop myself.

Tweeted Hayes.

It bothered me that the expanantion was the Jimmy Hayes departure.

Sorry, but the Indianhead is too burned into my heart to not be hurt by ANY round guy "deciding" the hawks don't fit.

Frack him.

purposely "for the, for the" him...

Why take the free tickets you slime ball, if you know you are going elsewhere?
- wiz1901

Why are you taking this so personally?

Couldn't stop myself.

Tweeted Hayes.

It bothered me that the expanantion was the Jimmy Hayes departure.

Sorry, but the Indianhead is too burned into my heart to not be hurt by ANY round guy "deciding" the hawks don't fit.

Frack him.

purposely "for the, for the" him...

Why take the free tickets you slime ball, if you know you are going elsewhere?
- wiz1901

Where did you see the explanation was the Jimmy Hayes departure?

Maybe Jimmy had bad things to say about the organization's manner of development. If so, they should take a look at what he says and see if it has any validity.

Probably just sour grapes from Jimmy.

Why are you taking this so personally?
- carcus

Wouldn't YOU take it personally if, say, Albert Pujols were to leave and go to LA?

Oh....

Why are you taking this so personally?
- carcus

He said why in his post.

Some fans will take it that way. I see it as a 22 year old college grad (did he graduate?) seeking to maximize his earning and career potential.

Now, if Jimmy Hayes is bad mouthing the organization that gave him a shot and then traded him to a team he would get to play in the NHL for... that may be something to get offended over. Those criticisms cannot be ignored either. With the money they are spending on player development they need to be certain they have the right people handling it.

Wouldn't YOU take it personally if, say, Albert Pujols were to leave and go to LA?

Oh....
- StLBravesFan

Wait... so Kevin Hayes is the Albert Pujols of hockey?

Wait... so Kevin Hayes is the Albert Pujols of hockey?
- prd797

Of course - which he proved his last year at BC or BU or whichever B he went to.

BTW - except for Maggie's report - has anyone seen a confirmation anywhere?

Not that I expect him to sign with Chicago in any case.

Of course - which he proved his last year at BC or BU or whichever B he went to.

BTW - except for Maggie's report - has anyone seen a confirmation anywhere?

Not that I expect him to sign with Chicago in any case.
- StLBravesFan

http://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/545738

http://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/545738
- EKolb13

Thanks - nothing there about how they (mis)treated his brother.