Some of it is also Coaches deployment. I mean Crosby can probably kill penalties just fine if placed in the position but why waste his time when he can use those minutes to score goals?
- PaskySens

Some, yes...but to be an "elite" penalty killer takes a certain mindset and work ethic. I believe Crosby has the work ethic, but not necessarily the mindset.

Here's an interesting question though: how many elite players are also elite penalty killers? Bergeron, Kopitar, Toews, Hossa, Datsyuk, Zetterberg... There are more that aren't.
- andru2797

First of all what is your definition of elite? I would not call Bergeron or Hossa at this point Elite. Some teams choose not to use star players in PK roles due to wear and tear on the player. I know what your saying in how that intangible holds weight against a one dimensional player but Crosby is not one dimensional.

Some, yes...but to be an "elite" penalty killer takes a certain mindset and work ethic. I believe Crosby has the work ethic, but not necessarily the mindset.
- andru2797

So crosby plays 21 minutes a game... Toews 20... and here we are debating how good these players are based on 1 minute of penalty killing? something isn't right here.

Another thing to consider re: Orr/Gretzky

Orr put up insane numbers as a defenseman (and a GREAT defensive defenseman) in an era playing against a much less diluted talent pool. He had to face Hull/Mikita, Beliveau, Howe, guys like that night after night.
- John Jaeckel

Yes, Gretkzy was an amazing player and he changed the game. How much of his greatness had to do with playing on such a loaded Edmonton team? He still would have been legendary. Do you remember when the league eliminated 4 on 4s for offsetting minors because the Oilers were so dominant?

He would be #1
- Jordy8

#2, after Orr.

Some, yes...but to be an "elite" penalty killer takes a certain mindset and work ethic. I believe Crosby has the work ethic, but not necessarily the mindset.
- andru2797

What? People do realize Crosby is a 100 point per year player that take more physical abuse from other teams...trust me I know the Flyers attack him like he owes them something. He plays against the other teams best defence and strongest defensive players and still produces... Mindset

First of all what is your definition of elite? I would not call Bergeron or Hossa at this point Elite. Some teams choose not to use star players in PK roles due to wear and tear on the player. I know what your saying in how that intangible holds weight against a one dimensional player but Crosby is not one dimensional.
- RobFlyers#1

Fair enough... Let me rephrase: How many of the top 30-40 forwards in the league are elite penalty killers, meaning they are too good NOT to use on the PK, regardless of who else is on the team.

Why, because that play took 4 seconds to complete?
- paulr

What? People do realize Crosby is a 100 point per year player that take more physical abuse from other teams...trust me I know the Flyers attack him like he owes them something. He plays against the other teams best defence and strongest defensive players and still produces... Mindset
- RobFlyers#1

I was talking about a PENALTY KILLING mindset. That includes blocking shots, dogging the puck, engaging in board battles an having active stick.

So crosby plays 21 minutes a game... Toews 20... and here we are debating how good these players are based on 1 minute of penalty killing? something isn't right here.
- moylander

Not at all...You'll notice (if you go back and read) that I in fact chose Crosby as #1. I was merely stating that to kill penalties, a player must be prepared to do certain things to be succesful.

Not at all...You'll notice (if you go back and read) that I in fact chose Crosby as #1. I was merely stating that to kill penalties, a player must be prepared to do certain things to be succesful.
- andru2797

not necessarily directed at you

top ten D

Weber
Doughty
Keith
Suter
Chara
Pietrangelo
Karlsson
Subban
OEL
McDonagh

I was talking about a PENALTY KILLING mindset. That includes blocking shots, dogging the puck, engaging in board battles an having active stick.
- andru2797

Well if I'm the penguins I don't want my best players blocking shots if it's not necessary which is why most teams choose to sign good defensive players to do that so there offensive players don't have to risk the injuries.

Not at all...You'll notice (if you go back and read) that I in fact chose Crosby as #1. I was merely stating that to kill penalties, a player must be prepared to do certain things to be succesful.
- andru2797

So by all this nonsense of Toews being a better overall player than Crosby because of his two-way play, leadership, and amazing PK skills. IMO, Bergeron is > Toews.

I mean Bergeron has amazing PK skills, better faceoff % than both of them. As for leadership, he's actually led his team to a president trophy AND He's got a better +-

just saying...

Fair enough... Let me rephrase: How many of the top 30-40 forwards in the league are elite penalty killers, meaning they are too good NOT to use on the PK, regardless of who else is on the team.
- andru2797

I get what your saying and that's why Toews would rank in the top 3 just not number 1

I was talking about a PENALTY KILLING mindset. That includes blocking shots, dogging the puck, engaging in board battles an having active stick.
- andru2797

hahaha, my favorite hockey term.

So by all this nonsense of Toews being a better overall player than Crosby because of his two-way play, leadership, and amazing PK skills. IMO, Bergeron is > Toews.

I mean Bergeron has amazing PK skills, better faceoff % than both of them. As for leadership, he's actually led his team to a president trophy AND He's got a better +-

just saying...
- l3ig_l2ecl

Toews has done this as well.

And Toews career +/- is +141
Bergeron career +/- is +108

Toews has done this as well.
- carcus

We're talking about current best NHL players, meaning this year/last season.

Anyway, congrats on Toews being a penalty killer, but considering the team was 17th in the league at killing penalties, I don't think it should be brought up as being that great.

Edit: Pittsburg was 5th without using Crosby. Obviously they figured something out that Joel hasn't.

Just so they don't feel left out...

My top 10 goalies (this was by far the toughest list outside #1):
1. Lundqvist - The most consistently great goalie in the league, year after year.
2. Quick - Prone a bad goal here & there, but hard to argue with results (2 Cups, Conn Smythe).
3. Price - Has the ability to carry a team, almost by himself.
4. Rinne - One of few modern-day goalies who can get in shooters' heads when he's on.
5. Rask - Ranking suffers behind great defensive team. Can he carry a team?
6. Bishop - Simply a monster in net. Was Hart-worthy this past season.
7. Bobrovsky - Has been a workhorse and the MVP of Jackets last 2 seasons.
8. Smith - On some nights, can appear unbeatable. Excellent puck handler.
9. Crawford - Can be leaky, but can be great when he finds his groove. Has proven to be mentally tough.
10. Schneider - Has yet to take that next step, but the talent is there.

Honorable mention: Luongo - Fresh start will do him good, plus has the best twitter account in hockey!

Just so they don't feel left out...

My top 10 goalies (this was by far the toughest list outside #1):
1. Lundqvist - The most consistently great goalie in the league, year after year.
2. Quick - Prone a bad goal here & there, but hard to argue with results (2 Cups, Conn Smythe).
3. Price - Has the ability to carry a team, almost by himself.
4. Rinne - One of few modern-day goalies who can get in shooters' heads when he's on.
5. Rask - Ranking suffers behind great defensive team. Can he carry a team?
6. Bishop - Simply a monster in net. Was Hart-worthy this past season.
7. Bobrovsky - Has been a workhorse and the MVP of Jackets last 2 seasons.
8. Smith - On some nights, can appear unbeatable. Excellent puck handler.
9. Crawford - Can be leaky, but can be great when he finds his groove. Has proven to be mentally tough.
10. Schneider - Has yet to take that next step, but the talent is there.

Honorable mention: Luongo - Fresh start will do him good, plus has the best twitter account in hockey!
- andru2797

He did say "Tomorrow, I'm doing goalies" but yes, that list is very accurate, especially the top 5. Might be differently placed, but they are undisputed.

We're talking about current best NHL players, meaning this year/last season.

Anyway, congrats on Toews being a penalty killer, but considering the team was 17th in the league at killing penalties, I don't think it should be brought up as being that great.

Edit: Pittsburg was 5th without using Crosby. Obviously they figured something out that Joel hasn't.
- l3ig_l2ecl

Bravo Bravo well said

He did say "Tomorrow, I'm doing goalies" but yes, that list is very accurate, especially the top 5. Might be differently placed, but they are undisputed.
- l3ig_l2ecl

Right...forgot about that.

Just so they don't feel left out...

My top 10 goalies (this was by far the toughest list outside #1):
1. Lundqvist - The most consistently great goalie in the league, year after year.
2. Quick - Prone a bad goal here & there, but hard to argue with results (2 Cups, Conn Smythe).
3. Price - Has the ability to carry a team, almost by himself.
4. Rinne - One of few modern-day goalies who can get in shooters' heads when he's on.
5. Rask - Ranking suffers behind great defensive team. Can he carry a team?
6. Bishop - Simply a monster in net. Was Hart-worthy this past season.
7. Bobrovsky - Has been a workhorse and the MVP of Jackets last 2 seasons.
8. Smith - On some nights, can appear unbeatable. Excellent puck handler.
9. Crawford - Can be leaky, but can be great when he finds his groove. Has proven to be mentally tough.
10. Schneider - Has yet to take that next step, but the talent is there.

Honorable mention: Luongo - Fresh start will do him good, plus has the best twitter account in hockey!
- andru2797

Don't agree with Schneider being on this list.

Just so they don't feel left out...

My top 10 goalies (this was by far the toughest list outside #1):
1. Lundqvist - The most consistently great goalie in the league, year after year.
2. Quick - Prone a bad goal here & there, but hard to argue with results (2 Cups, Conn Smythe).
3. Price - Has the ability to carry a team, almost by himself.
4. Rinne - One of few modern-day goalies who can get in shooters' heads when he's on.
5. Rask - Ranking suffers behind great defensive team. Can he carry a team?
6. Bishop - Simply a monster in net. Was Hart-worthy this past season.
7. Bobrovsky - Has been a workhorse and the MVP of Jackets last 2 seasons.
8. Smith - On some nights, can appear unbeatable. Excellent puck handler.
9. Crawford - Can be leaky, but can be great when he finds his groove. Has proven to be mentally tough.
10. Schneider - Has yet to take that next step, but the talent is there.

Honorable mention: Luongo - Fresh start will do him good, plus has the best twitter account in hockey!
- andru2797

undqvist
Rask
Quick
Rinne (healthy)
Price
Bishop
Varlamov
miller
Bobrovsky
Smith, would like to say Bernier but there might be some bias behind that

Don't agree with Schneider being on this list.
- RobFlyers#1

To be honest I debated between him, Mason and Niemi. Schneider has posted better stats more consistently, so I went with him.