I realize that... just illustrating that you can make a case for Crosby being far ahead of his competition... 104-87 is still a large gap in today's game, especially considering who his linemates have been.
- andru2797

I agree with your point about Crosby, but to use that line of reasoning, I think he has to sustain that gap for more than 1 year. Though, his pace in his injury-shortened seasons have all been pretty high, with one coming at right under 130 points in a full 82 game schedule.

I'd love to see a list of the top 10 current dmen,, now that would cause arguments lol
- KovyFan27

Doughty
Keith
Weber
Suter
Chara
Pietrangelo
McDonagh
OEL
Hedman
Subban
Karlsson

let me put it this way. i have always said 99 was the best from the neck up and 4 the best from the neck down. But I take 4 as the best ever. 99 was incredible.
- John Jaeckel

I like that.

I'd love to see a list of the top 10 current dmen,, now that would cause arguments lol
- KovyFan27

About their actual ranking, but I think most list would include Douhty, Keith, Chara, Subban, Karlsson, Weber, Suter, and Alex P. I'd probably go OEL and McD myself. Last two spots would be wildly debated, and I see a lot of people snubbing Chara and Karlsson.

I agree Gretzky had an easy era... But you cannot argue his records .. He's number one all time...and Crosby is number one right now as well.. I love teows too but...no one sees the Ice like Crosby

About their actual ranking, but I think most list would include Douhty, Keith, Chara, Subban, Karlsson, Weber, Suter, and Alex P. I'd probably go OEL and McD myself. Last two spots would be wildly debated, and I see a lot of people snubbing Chara and Karlsson.
- Blackstrom2

Chara probably won't get snubbed as if anything he gets more credit due to his size and skill, although definitely deserved for the most part.

Karlsson snubbed happened early enough as I already see him behind Hedman on the first list posted

I don't understand what you're trying to say? Are you trying to take my argument and twist it into saying that by my logic, Mike Richards is a better hockey player than Toews?

Mike Richards scored barely over 40 points this year and was relegated to the 4th line for much of the regular season and playoffs.

You said that Chicago only puts Toews on the PK because every other Blackhawks player sucks at playing PK and that's not true. They put them out there so much because he's great at it and provides some offense potential as well over a guy like Kruger.

To determine how good a player is overall, you need to look at the...OVERALL...picture. You need to look at every aspect of their games. Toews is better than Mike Richards in offense, defense, and leadership.
- rangerdanger94

I don't expect you to understand if you think in anyway Toews is better than Crosby. I never said other Blackhawks players sucked. I said that the Hawks use Toews to kill penalties because they don't feel others can do it as effectively as Toews does. Pittsburgh obviously don't see the need to use Crosby in those situations. I know he can because I have have seen him kill penalties.

As for your speech on Richards. 40 points on the fourth line sounds pretty good to me. My point was there are a lot of players who are good on the PK don't mean they are the best players in the world. But for fun lets look at some of things Richards has accomplished. Memorial Cup, World Junior Gold (2) and captain by the way, Calder Cup, Stanley Cup ( 2), Olympic Gold and a Selke Nom. That's not too bad a resume in my opinion.

Doughty
Keith
Weber
Suter
Chara
Pietrangelo
McDonagh
OEL
Hedman
Subban
Karlsson
- rangerdanger94

Really? Subban and Karlsson shouldn't be below the 4, maybe even the 5 or 6 above them.

I'd love to see a list of the top 10 current dmen,, now that would cause arguments lol
- KovyFan27

Ask and ye shall receive:

1. Keith - 2 Norris trophies, 2 Cups, 2 Gold Medals.
2. Doughty - 2 Cups, can dominate at both ends.
3. Weber - A crime he hasn't won a Norris yet.
4. Suter - Can a 100-million dollar player be underrated? Does it all, and very well.
5. Subban - One of the most impactful players in the game.
6. Karlsson - His offense cannot be overlooked.
7. Chara - Even in his declining years, still one of the most dominant defenseman in his own zone.
8. McDonagh - 8, and climbing. The sky's the limit. Has many of the tools that Keith has.
9. Hedman - Still a lot of untapped potential, but improving every season.
10. Pietrangelo - Excels at both ends, but has yet to find the extra gear to enter the game's elite dmen.

Give Crosby a Jari Kurri and that gap between him and 2nd place in scoring would be huge..

Really? Subban and Karlsson shouldn't be below the 4, maybe even the 5 or 6 above them.
- Horseguts

No, people hate Subban and you will agree with them!!!!

Really? Subban and Karlsson shouldn't be below the 4, maybe even the 5 or 6 above them.
- Horseguts

McDonagh outplayed Subban in the ECF by a country mile.

Ask and ye shall receive:

1. Keith - 2 Norris trophies, 2 Cups, 2 Gold Medals.
2. Doughty - 2 Cups, can dominate at both ends.
3. Weber - A crime he hasn't won a Norris yet.
4. Suter - Can a 100-million dollar player be underrated? Does it all, and very well.
5. Subban - One of the most impactful players in the game.
6. Karlsson - His offense cannot be overlooked.
7. Chara - Even in his declining years, still one of the most dominant defenseman in his own zone.
8. McDonagh - 8, and climbing. The sky's the limit. Has many of the tools that Keith has.
9. Hedman - Still a lot of untapped potential, but improving every season.
10. Pietrangelo - Excels at both ends, but has yet to find the extra gear to enter the game's elite dmen.
- andru2797

This is a very good list and very accurate. Well done. That said, I would switch 9 and 10 around

Chara probably won't get snubbed as if anything he gets more credit due to his size and skill, although definitely deserved for the most part.

Karlsson snubbed happened early enough as I already see him behind Hedman on the first list posted
- PaskySens

He's just older now, so I've already seen the "he's lost a step", etc comments.

Karlsson gets snubbed all the time, which is just ridiculous. The Larry Murphy-effect. Or is it the Coffey-effect? Or is it now, the Mike Green-effect?

I don't expect you to understand if you think in anyway Toews is better than Crosby. I never said other Blackhawks players sucked. I said that the Hawks use Toews to kill penalties because they don't feel others can do it as effectively as Toews does. Pittsburgh obviously don't see the need to use Crosby in those situations. I know he can because I have have seen him kill penalties.

As for your speech on Richards. 40 points on the fourth line sounds pretty good to me. My point was there are a lot of players who are good on the PK don't mean they are the best players in the world. But for fun lets look at some of things Richards has accomplished. Memorial Cup, World Junior Gold (2) and captain by the way, Calder Cup, Stanley Cup ( 2), Olympic Gold and a Selke Nom. That's not too bad a resume in my opinion.
- RobFlyers#1

I never said Toews is better than Crosby. All I said was Toews is on the PK because he's good defensively and offensively.

Ask and ye shall receive:

1. Keith - 2 Norris trophies, 2 Cups, 2 Gold Medals.
2. Doughty - 2 Cups, can dominate at both ends.
3. Weber - A crime he hasn't won a Norris yet.
4. Suter - Can a 100-million dollar player be underrated? Does it all, and very well.
5. Subban - One of the most impactful players in the game.
6. Karlsson - His offense cannot be overlooked.
7. Chara - Even in his declining years, still one of the most dominant defenseman in his own zone.
8. McDonagh - 8, and climbing. The sky's the limit. Has many of the tools that Keith has.
9. Hedman - Still a lot of untapped potential, but improving every season.
10. Pietrangelo - Excels at both ends, but has yet to find the extra gear to enter the game's elite dmen.
- andru2797

I think my list would just swap Pietrangelo and Chara

OEL vs. Hedman. Battle of the Swedes for that spot.

McDonagh outplayed Subban in the ECF by a country mile.
- rangerdanger94

Agreed. However, one series is not yet enough to rank him ahead. Subban has a Norris, after all.

Ask and ye shall receive:

1. Keith - 2 Norris trophies, 2 Cups, 2 Gold Medals.
2. Doughty - 2 Cups, can dominate at both ends.
3. Weber - A crime he hasn't won a Norris yet.
4. Suter - Can a 100-million dollar player be underrated? Does it all, and very well.
5. Subban - One of the most impactful players in the game.
6. Karlsson - His offense cannot be overlooked.
7. Chara - Even in his declining years, still one of the most dominant defenseman in his own zone.
8. McDonagh - 8, and climbing. The sky's the limit. Has many of the tools that Keith has.
9. Hedman - Still a lot of untapped potential, but improving every season.
10. Pietrangelo - Excels at both ends, but has yet to find the extra gear to enter the game's elite dmen.
- andru2797

Good list. The only change I think I would make IMO is switch Karlsson and Subban

McDonagh outplayed Subban in the ECF by a country mile.
- rangerdanger94

Where was McDonagh in the finals?

McDonagh outplayed Subban in the ECF by a country mile.
- rangerdanger94

Yea as good as I find Subban and he definitely deserves to be in the Top 10, when he misses his body checks he tends to leave his goalie out to dry as that's something I noticed from him while watching the playoffs this year. When he does connect though it makes for a great highlight reel & exposure.

This is a very good list and very accurate. Well done. That said, I would switch 9 and 10 around

- Horseguts

Thank you sir...I try to be as objective as I can, which is hard because of how much i can't stand Chara, lol

Agreed. However, one series is not yet enough to rank him ahead. Subban has a Norris, after all.
- andru2797

True. It's tough to argue exact positions on the list as everyone values offense and defense differently from a defenseman.

Where was McDonagh in the finals?
- paulr

But where was Subban?

Pavel Datsyuk simply doesn't have it anymore with his old ass...



If your list doesn't have him, your list is huff.
And I hate Crosby but he's #1.