Crosby is always going to have Kunitz as an excuse, now that he's been chosen as an Olympian
- SolidGoldBricks

Needed that chemistry. Ended up being a pretty damn good team though.

[quote=prock]

Well, last season only Dallas had a losing record vs the East, and 6 Western teams had fewer than 10 reulation losses vs the East. Conversely, 6 Eastern Teams had losing records vs the West, with only 2 having fewer than 10 regulation losses.

- The West also had 12 of the top 20 point scorers overall.

- 7 of the top 10 teams in 5-on-5 goals F/A were from the West.

- 8 of the top 10 teams in shots allowed per game were from the West.

Add to all that the trades/signings of Spezza, Vanek, B. Richards, Iginla & Neal and it's not like the West got weaker.

The West is a more competitive conference right now. No doubt about it.

Needed that chemistry. Ended up being a pretty damn good team though.
- BlazinMike

Probably the best hockey team I've ever seen. Was so much fun to watch, regardless of who was on it/ playing well.

Probably the best hockey team I've ever seen. Was so much fun to watch, regardless of who was on it/ playing well.
- SolidGoldBricks

The 2005 World Juniors (Canada) are up there for me. I don't know if I've seen a more dominant team (relative to their competition).

Probably the best hockey team I've ever seen. Was so much fun to watch, regardless of who was on it/ playing well.
- SolidGoldBricks

There was a couple nail biters in there. But it was no surprise they won the gold.

I wonder if someone can pull his scoring stats vs west and east. My bet is he is .3-.4 better per game in the east
- Cup-Bearer

They did and just as you state Toews better than Crosby. You are Wrong.


So Crosby vs West opponents: 26 games, 35 points for a 1.346 ppg

In the easy East: 56 games, 69 points for a 1.232 ppg

And that was the last good thing he's done since.
- biegs

Sid has missed basically two years of playoffs due to concussions (or lingering symptoms) and played another with a broken jaw (from a puck hitting it).

Last season was truly Sid's 1st full season back (He won a Hart and Art Ross) and although he only scored one goal in the post-season its not that much worse than toews only scoring 3 goals during the hawks stanley cup run in 2013 (23 games) or those 3 goals he contributed the prior 2 seasons when they were bounced in round 1 (13 games).

The hawks do have the better team which helps.

EDIT - iirc Sid had wrist surgury this summer when the playoffs ended so there's that.

They did and just as you state Toews better than Crosby. You are Wrong.


So Crosby vs West opponents: 26 games, 35 points for a 1.346 ppg

In the easy East: 56 games, 69 points for a 1.232 ppg
- RobFlyers#1

To be fair, career numbers for Sid are 1.43 in 452 games vs East and 1.23 in 98 games vs West.

To be fair, career numbers for Sid are 1.43 in 452 games vs East and 1.23 in 98 games vs West.
- andru2797

So, to be fair, he's still way better than literally anyone else.

To be fair, career numbers for Sid are 1.43 in 452 games vs East and 1.23 in 98 games vs West.
- andru2797

Pretty solid either way (Sid is an awesome player). We are lucky to have a top guy like Towes and be able to have the comparison.

You could barely even see Crosby scoring the overtime winning goal in the Gold Medal game!
- SolidGoldBricks

He was invisible until then and has been since.

I'll back you up on this one, even as a Hawks fan. But not only for on-ice reasons. Crosby means way too much to that organization. Trading him for anyone right now would undo everything they've built around him, on the ice and especially off.
- andru2797

I'll take the kid from ChiTown and the $1.8M higher cap hit (after next season) over an oft-injured, whiny, diver like punk in Pgh. After his Sedin-like act in the Olympics that so-miffed a true leader on Selanne, he did it again shortly thereafter against the 'Hawks. Plus Toews has 2 cups to 1, is a better captain and the real force behind Canada's latest two Olympic Golds.

The guy who disappeared for two straight Olympics and the past 5 playoffs?
- Scooby_Doo

I seem to remember the great scoring sid-the-kid leading his team to as many goals in 4+ games vs the B's (in a conf final none-the-less) as Toews and the 'Hawks vs that very same B's team in 17 seconds. Hmmmmm. Everyone loves to talk about all those points Crosby gets, Except in crunch time. On one play, Toews had half as many points as any 'guins player could have in the previous round, in those 17 seconds...the primary assist on the game tying goal.

Toews > Crosby

Better 3-zone player, better captain, better character, period.

EDIT: You know Crosby knows Toews is the man when sid-the-kid asks captain serious if its alright with him to wear the Olympic "C". That is the respect #19 garners and deserves across the entire league.

Interesting to note: Toews has scored at a nearly identical pace vs both conferences in his career.

I seem to remember the great scoring sid-the-kid leading his team to as many goals in 4+ games vs the B's (in a conf final none-the-less) as Toews and the 'Hawks vs that very same B's team in 17 seconds. Hmmmmm. Everyone loves to talk about all those points Crosby gets, Except in crunch time. On one play, Toews had half as many points as any 'guins player could have in the previous round, in those 17 seconds...the primary assist on the game tying goal.

Toews > Crosby

Better 3-zone player, better captain, better character, period.

EDIT: You know Crosby knows Toews is the man when sid-the-kid asks captain serious if its alright with him to wear the Olympic "C". That is the respect #19 garners and deserves across the entire league.
- blackhawk24

Toews doesn't whine, and unlike Crosby, everyone can play with him and they all become better players.

Gretzkys gift was that he made players like BJ Macdonald 50 goal scorers. With Crosby, they had to bring Kunitz on team Canada because he had "chemistry". Same with Bergeron in 2010 because his "chemistry" in world juniors with Crosby.

Crosby should never ever be mentioned with the Greats, he isn't on that level.

To be fair, career numbers for Sid are 1.43 in 452 games vs East and 1.23 in 98 games vs West.
- andru2797

And what are Toews? I'm gonna say not a point per vs any conference.

I'll take the kid from ChiTown and the $1.8M higher cap hit (after next season) over an oft-injured, whiny, diver like punk in Pgh. After his Sedin-like act in the Olympics that so-miffed a true leader on Selanne, he did it again shortly thereafter against the 'Hawks. Plus Toews has 2 cups to 1, is a better captain and the real force behind Canada's latest two Olympic Golds.
- blackhawk24

A hawks fan would.

The Leafs have re-signed Jake Gardiner to a 5 year $20.25 million deal ($4.05 AAV).

Gardiner (24) had 31 points for the Leafs last season averaging just over 21 minutes per game. I think this signing could have a direct impact on Leddy's next contract. Leddy and Gardiner both had 31 points, but Leddy averaged 16:22 TOI.

I think Orr is no doubt the best defenseman ever. But regardless of the position, the era in which the player played or whatever, how can u put anyone ahead of 99? When u look at all team sports nobody stands out/has ever stood out individually with their accomplishments as much as Gretzky does. The records, the eye popping stats(both regular season and playoffs), its just too much to ignore. Too much to not have him #1 on any list. Trying to put Orr above him is just trying to be different IMO....has nothing to do with having seen him play or not. More assists than anyone has pts? C'mon man....

And what are Toews? I'm gonna say not a point per vs any conference.
- RobFlyers#1

But he kills penalties.

I think Orr is no doubt the best defenseman ever. But regardless of the position, the era in which the player played or whatever, how can u put anyone ahead of 99? When u look at all team sports nobody stands out/has ever stood out individually with their accomplishments as much as Gretzky does. The records, the eye popping stats(both regular season and playoffs), its just too much to ignore. Too much to not have him #1 on any list. Trying to put Orr above him is just trying to be different IMO....has nothing to do with having seen him play or not. More assists than anyone has pts? C'mon man....
- SimpleJack

Yeah it's crazy...

But he kills penalties.
- Blackstrom2

I know I think someone mentioned that....

I think Orr is no doubt the best defenseman ever. But regardless of the position, the era in which the player played or whatever, how can u put anyone ahead of 99? When u look at all team sports nobody stands out/has ever stood out individually with their accomplishments as much as Gretzky does. The records, the eye popping stats(both regular season and playoffs), its just too much to ignore. Too much to not have him #1 on any list. Trying to put Orr above him is just trying to be different IMO....has nothing to do with having seen him play or not. More assists than anyone has pts? C'mon man....
- SimpleJack

And what are Toews? I'm gonna say not a point per vs any conference.
- RobFlyers#1

About 0.91 career. And I'll reiterate, I chose Sid so you won't get an argument from me. Just bring up that fact about Toews because it shows remarkable consistency.

I think Orr is no doubt the best defenseman ever. But regardless of the position, the era in which the player played or whatever, how can u put anyone ahead of 99? When u look at all team sports nobody stands out/has ever stood out individually with their accomplishments as much as Gretzky does. The records, the eye popping stats(both regular season and playoffs), its just too much to ignore. Too much to not have him #1 on any list. Trying to put Orr above him is just trying to be different IMO....has nothing to do with having seen him play or not. More assists than anyone has pts? C'mon man....
- SimpleJack

Bobby Orr has a very legitimate claim to the top spot. He was as far ahead of other dmen of his time as 99 was from forwards of his time.