We're talking about current best NHL players, meaning this year/last season.

Anyway, congrats on Toews being a penalty killer, but considering the team was 17th in the league at killing penalties, I don't think it should be brought up as being that great.

Edit: Pittsburg was 5th without using Crosby. Obviously they figured something out that Joel hasn't.
- l3ig_l2ecl

If you look at more than just the simple numbers:

After January 1 - 40 games - half the season - the Hawks PK was at about 89%, best in the league.

It was terrible for the first month or two, while the PP was outstanding; those two special teams switched position after January 1 - PP went into the toilet, PK was excellent.

Tavares is an above average skater now.

Well if I'm the penguins I don't want my best players blocking shots if it's not necessary which is why most teams choose to sign good defensive players to do that so there offensive players don't have to risk the injuries.
- RobFlyers#1

I give up.

You're right.

Can't look at individual skills other than scoring goals and getting points when evaluating players - certainly can't look at defensive skills or PK skills or puck possession skills.

I was under the mistaken opinion that just because he was a great PKer that Toews was the best in the league without considering any other skills involved.

Or - at least - that's what so many of the comments today seem to be saying I was thinking.

Solid list JJ. I have Kopitar, Weber, Bergeron and Kane in my 10 though and Sedin, Giroux, Keith or Doughty and Tavares out of it. Also Weber is hands down the best defenseman in the NHL, it's a crime he hasn't won a Norris yet.
- dan9189

agree

Tavares and Henrik Sedin over Getzlaf?

Lol.

I give up.

You're right.

Can't look at individual skills other than scoring goals and getting points when evaluating players - certainly can't look at defensive skills or PK skills or puck possession skills.

I was under the mistaken opinion that just because he was a great PKer that Toews was the best in the league without considering any other skills involved.

Or - at least - that's what so many of the comments today seem to be saying I was thinking.
- StLBravesFan

Look at every stats you want. They should all be used. Here's the thing though. You're using killing penalties!!! Maxime (frank)ing Lapierre kills penalties better than Toews. It's not that great of a skill. At lease 60 other forwards in the NHL do it as good as Toews does. Why use this one skill?

Now how many other players get 100+ points? How many other players have a 1.0 ppg? Just because his coach doesn't use Crosby on the PK, doesn't mean he wouldn't excel at it. Why use the best player in the world to kill penalties? Tire him out? I personally think it's stupid for Quenneville to use him when you can use 4th liners that do the job.

Seriously, Penalty kill?

All I see is Iverson saying Practice...... It's as close as it gets.

Tavares and Henrik Sedin over Getzlaf?

Lol.
- DutchCanSaveUs

Tavares, absolutely. You could make the argument Getzlaf isn't even the best player on his team. Having said that, he's definitely in my top 15.

Tavares and Henrik Sedin over Getzlaf?

Lol.
- DutchCanSaveUs

Getzlaf too this point has had a good-great team built around him. Tavares hasn't had an above real .500 team his whole career.

I can see the arguement for either/or though

Don't agree with Schneider being on this list.
- RobFlyers#1

I think his numbers earn him a tenth spot. Who would you put at 10?

Tavares, absolutely. You could make the argument Getzlaf isn't even the best player on his team. Having said that, he's definitely in my top 15.
- andru2797

Good point. A player doesn't need to be listed in the top 10 to be a great player. Players 11-20 aren't bad hockey players by any stretch of the imagination.

Look at every stats you want. They should all be used. Here's the thing though. You're using killing penalties!!! Maxime (frank)ing Lapierre kills penalties better than Toews. It's not that great of a skill. At lease 60 other forwards in the NHL do it as good as Toews does. Why use this one skill?

Now how many other players get 100+ points? How many other players have a 1.0 ppg? Just because his coach doesn't use Crosby on the PK, doesn't mean he wouldn't excel at it. Why use the best player in the world to kill penalties? Tire him out? I personally think it's stupid for Quenneville to use him when you can use 4th liners that do the job.

Seriously, Penalty kill?

All I see is Iverson saying Practice...... It's as close as it gets.
- l3ig_l2ecl

I said I give up: stop making me feel bad.

I give up.

You're right.

Can't look at individual skills other than scoring goals and getting points when evaluating players - certainly can't look at defensive skills or PK skills or puck possession skills.

I was under the mistaken opinion that just because he was a great PKer that Toews was the best in the league without considering any other skills involved.

Or - at least - that's what so many of the comments today seem to be saying I was thinking.
- StLBravesFan

Whatever bottom line is based on individual skill Toews still losses to Crosby.

Look at every stats you want. They should all be used. Here's the thing though. You're using killing penalties!!! Maxime (frank)ing Lapierre kills penalties better than Toews. It's not that great of a skill. At lease 60 other forwards in the NHL do it as good as Toews does. Why use this one skill?

Now how many other players get 100+ points? How many other players have a 1.0 ppg? Just because his coach doesn't use Crosby on the PK, doesn't mean he wouldn't excel at it. Why use the best player in the world to kill penalties? Tire him out? I personally think it's stupid for Quenneville to use him when you can use 4th liners that do the job.

Seriously, Penalty kill?

All I see is Iverson saying Practice...... It's as close as it gets.
- l3ig_l2ecl

Being an elite penalty killer is not the same as being on the ice while your team is killing a penalty. I dare you to find 10, let alone 60 players who are legitimately or even arguably better defensive forwards than Toews.

My list begins and ends with Kopitar, Datsyuk, Bergeron, Hossa and Zetterberg.

On a good year, Ryan O'Reilly and Ryan Kesler crack that list, but not consistently.

Getzlaf too this point has had a good-great team built around him. Tavares hasn't had an above real .500 team his whole career.

I can see the arguement for either/or though
- Danformo

curious........do you think Tavares is better than Kopitar? I dont think its close but you being a Islander fan and JJ picking him over Kopitar ??
makes me interested to hear your opinion.

curious........do you think Tavares is better than Kopitar? I dont think its close but you being a Islander fan and JJ picking him over Kopitar ??
makes me interested to hear your opinion.
- dprice818

Kind of a similar argument to Crosby vs Toews in my mind. Do you pick the better offensive talent or the better all-around player?

Granted the offensive gap isn't as great though.

I think his numbers earn him a tenth spot. Who would you put at 10?
- dprice818

Funny thing is goalies should be easier to figure out right. Their only job is to stop the puck... They have 4 stats to look at. Save%, GAA, SO, and Wins. However, I find it so complex because the look they get against them is different. Teams in front of them, etc.

I also think puck control is such an important stat that it gets overlooked because you can't put a stat on it.

I think this is where Price shines. He controls the puck very well. Helps out the D. One of the reasons he was so missed against the Rangers.

curious........do you think Tavares is better than Kopitar? I dont think its close but you being a Islander fan and JJ picking him over Kopitar ??
makes me interested to hear your opinion.
- dprice818

Offensively yes. Defensively no.

It depends how you veiw things, and what your team has.

Say we call Kopi a 75 pt player, and say we call JT right now a 82* pt player (Jt would have had I believe 88 if healthy this season). Right now those 7 pts doesnt really mean much when you play D like Kopi. But this up coming season is the first JT will finally have a real team around him, so it will be harder for opponents to lock him down in games, which rarely happens. I think JT can be a 90 pt player once things get going.

End of the day, I'd rather have JT purely because I don't think we've seen his cieling. In the lockout shortened season he literally put the Isles on his back, and would have been on pace for 40+goals in a reg season. But to say one is better than the other is stupid.

If JT is #8 Kopi is #9, or vise versa.

curious........do you think Tavares is better than Kopitar? I dont think its close but you being a Islander fan and JJ picking him over Kopitar ??
makes me interested to hear your opinion.
- dprice818

I think from a pure offensive ability standpoint, tavares is only behind crosby, stamkos, ovechkin, and malkin. Overall? Kopitar is better defensively...but if its a fantasy draft I still pick tavares over kopitar.

Right...forgot about that.
- andru2797

Well, tomorrow's blog just got a lot easier.

I think from a pure offensive ability standpoint, tavares is only behind crosby, stamkos, ovechkin, and malkin. Overall? Kopitar is better defensively...but if its a fantasy draft I still pick tavares over kopitar.
- rangerdanger94

You can't go wrong with either, both hard workers and great players

I think his numbers earn him a tenth spot. Who would you put at 10?
- dprice818

The guy played 45 games. We're his numbers great...yes. He's 27 or 28 and had never played more than a tandem goalie with someone else and 45 games is the most he has ever played in one season. He's never had the pressure of carrying the load or carry a team due to there being an all-star goalie on the bench if he mailed it in. Now he's the man in New Jersey lets see how he handles playing 70 plus games... I'm not convinced. As for who I would put at 10 well I think Miller has been to good for to long not to be on there, Luongo also. I would have also place bobrovsky higher and threw in Varlamov.

TOEWS VS. CROSBY

REPORTER: "Who's your best forward this year (2010 Canadian Olympic Team)?"
MIKE BABCOCK: "Whoever's playing with Toews."

The difference in 2014 was, Toews WAS the best forward on the team throughout the tournament. It was obvious.

Crosby plays in a different—and lesser (sorry, just a fact)—conference. Toews does so many things up and down the ice that helps his team win, period. Crosby is a good overall player and the best ffensive player in the game who can score like nobody's business. It's a valid argument. But I go with Toews because of all he does.

With all the advance stats coming out, how do we not have stats on how players are head to head?

All these great players, but once they play other GREAT players, how are there numbers?

This is like the baseball scout against the metric guy before moneyball.

Crosby is the best in the world UNLESS he plays against a solid two way player or an elite shutdown d man, and he disappears.

Same with Sedin, Malkin (but less then the other top world players), OVI (are you kindng me with him on the list, maybe for the top power play player in the world), etc.

Give me Kopitar, Toews, ROR, Bergy, etc. These guys will shut down the other "top ten players " and score on them to boot. I'd put Datsyuk in there but he really didn't play last year because of injury, so let's wait and see.

With all the advance stats coming out, how do we not have stats on how players are head to head?

All these great players, but once they play other GREAT players, how are there numbers?

This is like the baseball scout against the metric guy before moneyball.

Crosby is the best in the world UNLESS he plays against a solid two way player or an elite shutdown d man, and he disappears.

Same with Sedin, Malkin (but less then the other top world players), OVI (are you kindng me with him on the list, maybe for the top power play player in the world), etc.

Give me Kopitar, Toews, ROR, Bergy, etc. These guys will shut down the other "top ten players " and score on them to boot. I'd put Datsyuk in there but he really didn't play last year because of injury, so let's wait and see.
- JIwasinskiJr

How about chris kreider? Not only is he fast and beats up phaneuf, but be takes out top 5 in the world ranked goalies in the playoffs which is more valuable than any PK.

Offensively yes. Defensively no.

It depends how you veiw things, and what your team has.

Say we call Kopi a 75 pt player, and say we call JT right now a 82* pt player (Jt would have had I believe 88 if healthy this season). Right now those 7 pts doesnt really mean much when you play D like Kopi. But this up coming season is the first JT will finally have a real team around him, so it will be harder for opponents to lock him down in games, which rarely happens. I think JT can be a 90 pt player once things get going.

End of the day, I'd rather have JT purely because I don't think we've seen his cieling. In the lockout shortened season he literally put the Isles on his back, and would have been on pace for 40+goals in a reg season. But to say one is better than the other is stupid.

If JT is #8 Kopi is #9, or vise versa.
- Danformo

cool, I honestly havent seen enough of Tavares to make a fair comparison but I believe Kopi is the Kings best player by a landslide is he has gotta be the most underrated player in the NHL (though he is starting to get some recognition) I do hope JT kicks ass for you guys with all your young talent coming up.